Advocating for a grade appeal for myself and other students. Do we stand a chance?

[StudentGamerAthlete]

Hey all,

Just finished my 2nd semester and failed along with many others. There were many discrepancies in my program that are listed in my letter to the chairperson of the Nursing department. Since our professors set us up for failure through BS education and lies I decided to throw them both under the bus. Do we stand a chance for our grade to be appealed? Most of us are 1-4 points within a passing grade. Those that did pass were just over that line. Professor X is notorious for listed reasons around our program (even those who have not had her as a professor) and outside of the school from nurses we have run into on clinical sites. And Professor Y lied to us to hurt our grades. 12 students agreed to allow me to CC them to state the facts are true, 3 students BCC’d, and a few others to remain anonymous. Thoughts?

—————————————————

Professor E (chairperson),

I recently finished the 2nd semester (Maternity and Psychiatric Nursing Care - Nur 212) and have some deep concerns about the fairness of the program. I, and the students CC’d in this email* (as well as additional unnamed students who fear retaliation if they participate) feel it is important to raise certain concerns for the sake of our careers, our experience in (school name here), and the experience of future students. Included in this group are students who passed the course, as well as students who did not pass. All of us have the same concerns regardless of the outcome of our grades.

Overall, we believe that the class was not set up to allow students to succeed in a meaningful way due to the way the coursework was presented, taught, and tested. In addition, we don’t feel that we have been prepared to pass the course exams, as the course strategy was often “off-book,” non-linear, and often incomprehensible. This was not the experience of other students who were taught by other professors, as we learned after speaking with evening class students who do not report experiencing the same level of challenge with their professor. Additionally, to our knowledge, they had a much higher pass-rate than our class. We would thus request your review of the following points:

- We were underprepared and immediately behind the curve at the beginning of the semester because we were told we would be given an intense reading assignment over the Summer of 2021 that would prepare us for the Maternal and Newborn Nursing course. This reading was never distributed to the class.
- Professor X’ exams were on an advanced level of Nursing that was unrealistic, considering both our current level of critical knowledge and the mandatory (and expensive) prep material we purchased, which inadequately prepared us to pass these exams regardless of the time and effort spent in study.
- Professor X taught on the assumption that we were already educated in certain areas of Fundamentals of Nursing--information that we had never learned in the previous semester.
- Professor X stated she disagreed with the material in the required textbook. As dense as our coursework already is, this only made the experience more confusing, forced us to pursue further research for information she considered accurate, and unnecessarily complicated our curriculum.
- Professor X was either late to respond to student emails, or they were ignored. Personally, I asked for help on study strategy for success on the final exam 9 days in advance, and received a reply 48 hours before finals—far too late to be of any help.
- Professor Y, prior to her exams, inaccurately told us that we should focus on medication classes--not medication names. In fact, we were questioned on the exam for medication names. This cost us further points and significantly impacted our grade in the course. Upon confrontation with this discrepancy, Professor Y agreed that she had given us a false study tip, but was unwilling to remediate the situation, either by allowing us to retake the exam or to remediate that particular grade.
• - Prior to the final exam, Professor Y downplayed the difficulty of her exam, stating that her portion was ‘mild’ and that she recycles her questions from previous exams. Upon sitting for the test, we found it to be challenging and that the basic review of former material and questions that we had done in preparation left us unprepared. A far more in- depth focus on the material would have been required in order to successfully pass the test.

In sum, we believe your review of the course and our grades is in order. We invite you to have a conversation with us to discuss this experience, and to figure out the best way to move forward in a fair and equitable way. We strongly believe that many students who did not pass this course have fairly earned the right to move on to their next semester without repeating this set of classes – especially given the high costs (finances, time, personal sacrifice) associated with taking the class again.

Considering this experience, you can understand how dispirited many of us are—some even to the point of rethinking their future in this school, if not this career. Given that we were only allowed two on-site clinical experiences due to the pandemic, we also believe that consideration should be made for the lack of on-site educational benefits of an applied science.

We are eager to hear your thoughts on these matters. Please let us know your
availability to speak with us as a group. Since the next semester begins on January 28th, and we must have our plans in order well before then, we would appreciate an honest reply as soon as possible. 

Thank you for your time and consideration. We would not have come forward if we didn’t truly believe we had a case.

Best regards,

My Name | Phone Number

*Please note: CC’d students have given me permission to include them in this letter with agreeance that the follow facts stated are true.

[NICU Guy, BSN, RN]

The problem that you are going to face is that you (and everyone else that failed) waited until the semester has been completed to bring this issue up. There is usually a deadline (few days after the final day of finals) that final grades need to be posted to the university's system. They would have to issue Incomplete grades for all the students until the issue is resolved, which may interfere with next semester's classes. Your grievance should have been presented mid-semester when something can be investigated.

Grades should fall along the Bell Curve. If it doesn't, professors should look into the reason that the grades don't fall appropriately along the Bell Curve. In addition, individual questions that a high percentage of students get wrong, should be eliminated from the test score. 

[StudentGamerAthlete]

2 hours ago, NICU Guy said:

The problem that you are going to face is that you (and everyone else that failed) waited until the semester has been completed to bring this issue up. There is usually a deadline (few days after the final day of finals) that final grades need to be posted to the university's system. They would have to issue Incomplete grades for all the students until the issue is resolved, which may interfere with next semester's classes. Your grievance should have been presented mid-semester when something can be investigated.

Grades should fall along the Bell Curve. If it doesn't, professors should look into the reason that the grades don't fall appropriately along the Bell Curve. In addition, individual questions that a high percentage of students get wrong, should be eliminated from the test score. 

Thank you for your reply. The delay was because I thought it was a ‘me’ problem. I thought I could get caught up so I just kept going and trying harder. These discrepancies happened as they did - gradually throughout the semester, and I figured if I studied hard enough I’d succeed. After realizing that wasn’t the case I came to the conclusion my professors screwed us out of points, lecture material, misinformation, etc. So that was my “delay”. It led all the way up to the final exam. 2 days after finals our final grades were posted, and I sent my letter 2 days following the letter grade.

I’m talking about this with friends all over - Deans, professors, and other professionals I know. They all say it’s legit and to keep my fingers crossed that they take it seriously. No one wants negative press.

Again thank you for your reply, it was helpful and informative to help me determine my next steps if I need to take any.

[iNurs5, CNA]

Don't know your truths or stories. I hope that you were reasonable to mind pettiness. 

Good luck. 

[oldie, CNA, LVN]

Probably best to let it go, they are going to stick together and be against you guys. That’s usually how it goes, unless you have solid evidence of something. 

[Sun1]

How does one deal with such people? circumstances? when the system is biased (they want to collude against you)?  Are there any outside agencies or other means one can appeal to for help?  This is unfortunately wrong, and injustice....when you are paying to get a proper education and being trampled over because of bad teachers?  Please do all share your thoughts about it.  

I am in a somewhat similar situation, but am solo on this.

[londonflo]

3 hours ago, Sun1 said:

when the system is biased

I don't know if you were attending a private, state. for profit  college. The fact you posed is that you did not pass that class among others.. A college or school has to have good faith in providing education, measurable testing (bell curve as citied previously) and provide the education that will ensure the graduates pass NCLEX. (entry criteria are NOT a just barrier, but is ensuring the admitted students are available intellectually to attempt the content.) 

 There is no option when applying to NCLEX that says " I had a poor teacher".

Quote

"But I was just 1-4 points from passing. 

If you feel you would learn from another professor...take the second course. Just do not ask for a free pass to get passed on from this course for these reasons:

1) you may/may not have learned the NCLEX content:

2) Concepts build off another -- there are NCLEX questions that rely on foundational concepts from your program... for example  "pregnant mother with diabetes" 

How to build a leaky ship...spend a lot of time making the deck look good?

3) What  ever area this was in, you will be behind when you ever try to work there.

OKAY I have worked with some crummy professors. I don't know how Professor X and W didn't teach you what you feel was quality. educational instruction. You have books, You tube....a library, each other.

Get out before Professor Z is even worse. I am assuming this is a 'profit' college and if a college is accredited the pass/fail numbers are scrutinized and problems are researched for solutions. 

On 12/22/2021 at 9:14 AM, Taylor Nathe said:

Since our professors set us up for failure through BS education and lies I decided to throw them both under the bus.

Thank the bus and go elsewhere.

 

 

 

[londonflo]

On 12/22/2021 at 9:14 AM, Taylor Nathe said:

We were underprepared and immediately behind the curve at the beginning of the semester because we were told we would be given an intense reading assignment over the Summer of 2021 that would prepare us for the Maternal and Newborn Nursing course. This reading was never distributed to the class.

Why did you attempt a class where you (by your own admission) and think a reading would get you to where your should be to start the class? who determined you were "underprepared"? Testing? faculty assessment? Learning abilities or lack off? Not meaning to insult you but the handwriting "was on the wall". You know you would have a difficult time but, maybe in your credit, you persevered. Did you buy a book? plentiful on Amazon/eBay/. 

Quote

we would be given an intense reading assignment over the Summer of 2021 that would prepare us for the Maternal and Newborn Nursing course. This reading was never distributed to the class.

Success is not handed to you. You knew you needed to learn on your own. 

On 12/22/2021 at 9:56 AM, NICU Guy said:

Grades should fall along the Bell Curve. If it doesn't, professors should look into the reason that the grades don't fall appropriately along the Bell Curve.

Yes, if students are capable of the heavy nursing student load are admitted. I am questioning the program this student is in. "making them repeat courses" is another away of a program to keep tuition coming in and not delivering the product. 

On 12/22/2021 at 9:56 AM, NICU Guy said:

In addition, individual questions that a high percentage of students get wrong, should be eliminated from the test score. 

To a point. Grading test questions is agony, but sometimes it is up to the professor to decide if it was taught or not. In real life, if (example) 3 nurses view a patient and say "nothing wrong here" and the 4th sees something, we don't say "there was nothing wrong there to begin with". 

Yes, faculty do have to scrutinize the answers to a  question.  look for what someone might read into it, the difficulty of the question (plain knowledge questions are the easiest and are based on facts: "what is a normal temperature?" .

[AnnieNP, MSN, NP]

If your screen name is your real name, just know that your professor is probably reading this thread.

[StudentGamerAthlete]

2 hours ago, AnnieNP said:

If your screen name is your real name, just know that your professor is probably reading this thread.

I don’t feel as if I’ve compromised anything but thanks for the heads up. Changed.

[PollywogNP, ADN, BSN, MSN, LPN, NP]

 

What is non linear course strategy?

Failing a course by 1-4 points, do you mean one actual point or percentage points? For example if there are 1000 possible points but your average is 75%, it means you failed to earn 250 points to earn the maximum points.

If  you have taken & passed Fundamentals of Nursing first semester, I would expect you to know that material. 

How can you take pharmacology and not learn names of medications both generic & brands? This is basic.

Syllabus guides the course, course objective outline the expectations at completion of course. Midterm grades is the time to decide to drop or withdraw from a course.

Emailing professor 9 days before final exam? You realize professors teach more than one course per semester? What did you expect her to do? Professors have office hours, did you and you classmates utilize them? 

Who told you that an intense reading assignment would be given over the Summer? A professor sent email to entire cohort?

How many students in your cohort passed the class? 

[iNurs5, CNA]

On 12/22/2021 at 7:14 AM, StudentGamerAthlete said:

Hey all,

Just finished my 2nd semester and failed along with many others. There were many discrepancies in my program that are listed in my letter to the chairperson of the Nursing department. Since our professors set us up for failure through BS education and lies I decided to throw them both under the bus. Do we stand a chance for our grade to be appealed? Most of us are 1-4 points within a passing grade. Those that did pass were just over that line. Professor X is notorious for listed reasons around our program (even those who have not had her as a professor) and outside of the school from nurses we have run into on clinical sites. And Professor Y lied to us to hurt our grades. 12 students agreed to allow me to CC them to state the facts are true, 3 students BCC’d, and a few others to remain anonymous. Thoughts?

—————————————————

Professor E (chairperson),

I recently finished the 2nd semester (Maternity and Psychiatric Nursing Care - Nur 212) and have some deep concerns about the fairness of the program. I, and the students CC’d in this email* (as well as additional unnamed students who fear retaliation if they participate) feel it is important to raise certain concerns for the sake of our careers, our experience in (school name here), and the experience of future students. Included in this group are students who passed the course, as well as students who did not pass. All of us have the same concerns regardless of the outcome of our grades.

Overall, we believe that the class was not set up to allow students to succeed in a meaningful way due to the way the coursework was presented, taught, and tested. In addition, we don’t feel that we have been prepared to pass the course exams, as the course strategy was often “off-book,” non-linear, and often incomprehensible. This was not the experience of other students who were taught by other professors, as we learned after speaking with evening class students who do not report experiencing the same level of challenge with their professor. Additionally, to our knowledge, they had a much higher pass-rate than our class. We would thus request your review of the following points:

- We were underprepared and immediately behind the curve at the beginning of the semester because we were told we would be given an intense reading assignment over the Summer of 2021 that would prepare us for the Maternal and Newborn Nursing course. This reading was never distributed to the class.
- Professor X’ exams were on an advanced level of Nursing that was unrealistic, considering both our current level of critical knowledge and the mandatory (and expensive) prep material we purchased, which inadequately prepared us to pass these exams regardless of the time and effort spent in study.
- Professor X taught on the assumption that we were already educated in certain areas of Fundamentals of Nursing--information that we had never learned in the previous semester.
- Professor X stated she disagreed with the material in the required textbook. As dense as our coursework already is, this only made the experience more confusing, forced us to pursue further research for information she considered accurate, and unnecessarily complicated our curriculum.
- Professor X was either late to respond to student emails, or they were ignored. Personally, I asked for help on study strategy for success on the final exam 9 days in advance, and received a reply 48 hours before finals—far too late to be of any help.
- Professor Y, prior to her exams, inaccurately told us that we should focus on medication classes--not medication names. In fact, we were questioned on the exam for medication names. This cost us further points and significantly impacted our grade in the course. Upon confrontation with this discrepancy, Professor Y agreed that she had given us a false study tip, but was unwilling to remediate the situation, either by allowing us to retake the exam or to remediate that particular grade.
• - Prior to the final exam, Professor Y downplayed the difficulty of her exam, stating that her portion was ‘mild’ and that she recycles her questions from previous exams. Upon sitting for the test, we found it to be challenging and that the basic review of former material and questions that we had done in preparation left us unprepared. A far more in- depth focus on the material would have been required in order to successfully pass the test.

In sum, we believe your review of the course and our grades is in order. We invite you to have a conversation with us to discuss this experience, and to figure out the best way to move forward in a fair and equitable way. We strongly believe that many students who did not pass this course have fairly earned the right to move on to their next semester without repeating this set of classes – especially given the high costs (finances, time, personal sacrifice) associated with taking the class again.

Considering this experience, you can understand how dispirited many of us are—some even to the point of rethinking their future in this school, if not this career. Given that we were only allowed two on-site clinical experiences due to the pandemic, we also believe that consideration should be made for the lack of on-site educational benefits of an applied science.

We are eager to hear your thoughts on these matters. Please let us know your
availability to speak with us as a group. Since the next semester begins on January 28th, and we must have our plans in order well before then, we would appreciate an honest reply as soon as possible. 

Thank you for your time and consideration. We would not have come forward if we didn’t truly believe we had a case.

Best regards,

My Name | Phone Number

*Please note: CC’d students have given me permission to include them in this letter with agreeance that the follow facts stated are true.

What's the percentage of failed students in your class?