Just finished my 2nd semester and failed along with many others. There were many discrepancies in my program that are listed in my letter to the chairperson of the Nursing department. Since our professors set us up for failure through BS education and lies I decided to throw them both under the bus. Do we stand a chance for our grade to be appealed? Most of us are 1-4 points within a passing grade. Those that did pass were just over that line. Professor X is notorious for listed reasons around our program (even those who have not had her as a professor) and outside of the school from nurses we have run into on clinical sites. And Professor Y lied to us to hurt our grades. 12 students agreed to allow me to CC them to state the facts are true, 3 students BCC’d, and a few others to remain anonymous. Thoughts?
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Professor E (chairperson),
I recently finished the 2nd semester (Maternity and Psychiatric Nursing Care - Nur 212) and have some deep concerns about the fairness of the program. I, and the students CC’d in this email* (as well as additional unnamed students who fear retaliation if they participate) feel it is important to raise certain concerns for the sake of our careers, our experience in (school name here), and the experience of future students. Included in this group are students who passed the course, as well as students who did not pass. All of us have the same concerns regardless of the outcome of our grades.
Overall, we believe that the class was not set up to allow students to succeed in a meaningful way due to the way the coursework was presented, taught, and tested. In addition, we don’t feel that we have been prepared to pass the course exams, as the course strategy was often “off-book,” non-linear, and often incomprehensible. This was not the experience of other students who were taught by other professors, as we learned after speaking with evening class students who do not report experiencing the same level of challenge with their professor. Additionally, to our knowledge, they had a much higher pass-rate than our class. We would thus request your review of the following points:
- We were underprepared and immediately behind the curve at the beginning of the semester because we were told we would be given an intense reading assignment over the Summer of 2021 that would prepare us for the Maternal and Newborn Nursing course. This reading was never distributed to the class.
- Professor X’ exams were on an advanced level of Nursing that was unrealistic, considering both our current level of critical knowledge and the mandatory (and expensive) prep material we purchased, which inadequately prepared us to pass these exams regardless of the time and effort spent in study.
- Professor X taught on the assumption that we were already educated in certain areas of Fundamentals of Nursing--information that we had never learned in the previous semester.
- Professor X stated she disagreed with the material in the required textbook. As dense as our coursework already is, this only made the experience more confusing, forced us to pursue further research for information she considered accurate, and unnecessarily complicated our curriculum.
- Professor X was either late to respond to student emails, or they were ignored. Personally, I asked for help on study strategy for success on the final exam 9 days in advance, and received a reply 48 hours before finals—far too late to be of any help.
- Professor Y, prior to her exams, inaccurately told us that we should focus on medication classes--not medication names. In fact, we were questioned on the exam for medication names. This cost us further points and significantly impacted our grade in the course. Upon confrontation with this discrepancy, Professor Y agreed that she had given us a false study tip, but was unwilling to remediate the situation, either by allowing us to retake the exam or to remediate that particular grade.
• - Prior to the final exam, Professor Y downplayed the difficulty of her exam, stating that her portion was ‘mild’ and that she recycles her questions from previous exams. Upon sitting for the test, we found it to be challenging and that the basic review of former material and questions that we had done in preparation left us unprepared. A far more in- depth focus on the material would have been required in order to successfully pass the test.
In sum, we believe your review of the course and our grades is in order. We invite you to have a conversation with us to discuss this experience, and to figure out the best way to move forward in a fair and equitable way. We strongly believe that many students who did not pass this course have fairly earned the right to move on to their next semester without repeating this set of classes – especially given the high costs (finances, time, personal sacrifice) associated with taking the class again.
Considering this experience, you can understand how dispirited many of us are—some even to the point of rethinking their future in this school, if not this career. Given that we were only allowed two on-site clinical experiences due to the pandemic, we also believe that consideration should be made for the lack of on-site educational benefits of an applied science.
We are eager to hear your thoughts on these matters. Please let us know your
availability to speak with us as a group. Since the next semester begins on January 28th, and we must have our plans in order well before then, we would appreciate an honest reply as soon as possible.
Thank you for your time and consideration. We would not have come forward if we didn’t truly believe we had a case.
Best regards,
My Name | Phone Number
*Please note: CC’d students have given me permission to include them in this letter with agreeance that the follow facts stated are true.
Yeah I gotta be honest, I think the pass rate of your entire class is going to be the most critical factor in whether or not your complaint is taken seriously..
On 12/22/2021 at 12:06 PM, StudentGamerAthlete said:
Thank you for your reply. The delay was because I thought it was a ‘me’ problem. I thought I could get caught up so I just kept going and trying harder. These discrepancies happened as they did - gradually throughout the semester, and I figured if I studied hard enough I’d succeed. After realizing that wasn’t the case I came to the conclusion my professors screwed us out of points, lecture material, misinformation, etc. So that was my “delay”. It led all the way up to the final exam. 2 days after finals our final grades were posted, and I sent my letter 2 days following the letter grade.
Can you get ratings of ratemyprofessors or others and include that in your presentation to the administration. RMP usually has the truth on them. You pay for your education and you have a right to good professors. PC tells us we don't have a right to good professors that we have to settle.
Yeah I gotta be honest, I think the pass rate of your entire class is going to be the most critical factor in whether or not your complaint is taken seriously..
If that’s the case then I might actually have a shot!
27 minutes ago, summertx said:
Can you get ratings of ratemyprofessors or others and include that in your presentation to the administration. RMP usually has the truth on them. You pay for your education and you have a right to good professors. PC tells us we don't have a right to good professors that we have to settle.
The ratings are there and they speak the truth. Many unhappy campers. Still waiting for a 1st reply which will probably come after the new year. I’ll know what to do next (if anything) after I hear back.
What's the percentage of failed students in your class?
I don’t personally have the numbers, but I’ve talked to a few others who failed too. Some are most likely staying silent about it. And then there’s the morning section (I am in the afternoon section about 28 students) who are having the same problem.
If I had to guess I’d say 10-15 students might have failed? I know there’s been a couple withdrawals as well. And MANY of those who did pass barely made it by the skin of their teeth. That’s why I have so many people CC’d to my letter to say yes this is all true and we are not okay with the way things went down - both passing and failing students.
I’m not just 1 person who is upset he didn’t get to pass. I hold myself accountable in life. I studied my *** off and still could not pass the OB portion of exams. It made no sense. I am a grown *** mid-30s man with an evolved mind who can clearly see the gaps in my education and I just want things to be fair. If they can’t hold themselves accountable then I will press them to do the right thing.
Failing a course by 1-4 points, do you mean one actual point or percentage points? For example if there are 1000 possible points but your average is 75%, it means you failed to earn 250 points to earn the maximum points.
If you have taken & passed Fundamentals of Nursing first semester, I would expect you to know that material.
How can you take pharmacology and not learn names of medications both generic & brands? This is basic.
Syllabus guides the course, course objective outline the expectations at completion of course. Midterm grades is the time to decide to drop or withdraw from a course.
Emailing professor 9 days before final exam? You realize professors teach more than one course per semester? What did you expect her to do? Professors have office hours, did you and you classmates utilize them?
Who told you that an intense reading assignment would be given over the Summer? A professor sent email to entire cohort?
How many students in your cohort passed the class?
Well I’m still waiting for your response to these questions. You replied to others that posted after I did. Let’s hear your answers. Let’s say I’m playing Devil’s Advocate. FYI former faculty, taught 10 years In BSN program, taught in ADN & at for profit LPN program.
I don’t personally have the numbers, but I’ve talked to a few others who failed too. Some are most likely staying silent about it. And then there’s the morning section (I am in the afternoon section about 28 students) who are having the same problem.
If I had to guess I’d say 10-15 students might have failed? I know there’s been a couple withdrawals as well. And MANY of those who did pass barely made it by the skin of their teeth. That’s why I have so many people CC’d to my letter to say yes this is all true and we are not okay with the way things went down - both passing and failing students.
I’m not just 1 person who is upset he didn’t get to pass. I hold myself accountable in life. I studied my *** off and still could not pass the OB portion of exams. It made no sense. I am a grown *** mid-30s man with an evolved mind who can clearly see the gaps in my education and I just want things to be fair. If they can’t hold themselves accountable then I will press them to do the right thing.
This is one of the crucial parts of you winning your claim. You have to be honest and truthful in your claim because your allegation is serious.
I don’t personally have the numbers, but I’ve talked to a few others who failed too. Some are most likely staying silent about it. And then there’s the morning section (I am in the afternoon section about 28 students) who are having the same problem.
If I had to guess I’d say 10-15 students might have failed? I know there’s been a couple withdrawals as well. And MANY of those who did pass barely made it by the skin of their teeth. That’s why I have so many people CC’d to my letter to say yes this is all true and we are not okay with the way things went down - both passing and failing students.
I’m not just 1 person who is upset he didn’t get to pass. I hold myself accountable in life. I studied my *** off and still could not pass the OB portion of exams. It made no sense. I am a grown *** mid-30s man with an evolved mind who can clearly see the gaps in my education and I just want things to be fair. If they can’t hold themselves accountable then I will press them to do the right thing.
I'm also a student nurse. I could melt my plastic chair if it wasn't made of materials that can resist heat from studying every day. Try to ask for another exam that is relevant to what you have read or learned.
Well I’m still waiting for your response to these questions. You replied to others that posted after I did. Let’s hear your answers. Let’s say I’m playing Devil’s Advocate. FYI former faculty, taught 10 years In BSN program, taught in ADN & at for profit LPN program.
My apologies - your earlier reply was lengthy. When I find more time I will reply. I’m doing the Christmas thing so when I can I sneak into the message board here and catch up on this thread (which is trending). Wooooo!
I don’t personally have the numbers, but I’ve talked to a few others who failed too. Some are most likely staying silent about it. And then there’s the morning section (I am in the afternoon section about 28 students) who are having the same problem.
If I had to guess I’d say 10-15 students might have failed? I know there’s been a couple withdrawals as well. And MANY of those who did pass barely made it by the skin of their teeth. That’s why I have so many people CC’d to my letter to say yes this is all true and we are not okay with the way things went down - both passing and failing students.
I’m not just 1 person who is upset he didn’t get to pass. I hold myself accountable in life. I studied my *** off and still could not pass the OB portion of exams. It made no sense. I am a grown *** mid-30s man with an evolved mind who can clearly see the gaps in my education and I just want things to be fair. If they can’t hold themselves accountable then I will press them to do the right thing.
My professor would add a few critical thinking questions in our quizzes and exams. The majority of the students failed those questions. Only three students got them right out of 27 students. What do you think? Where do you think the disconnection here?
Failing a course by 1-4 points, do you mean one actual point or percentage points? For example if there are 1000 possible points but your average is 75%, it means you failed to earn 250 points to earn the maximum points.
If you have taken & passed Fundamentals of Nursing first semester, I would expect you to know that material.
How can you take pharmacology and not learn names of medications both generic & brands? This is basic.
Syllabus guides the course, course objective outline the expectations at completion of course. Midterm grades is the time to decide to drop or withdraw from a course.
Emailing professor 9 days before final exam? You realize professors teach more than one course per semester? What did you expect her to do? Professors have office hours, did you and you classmates utilize them?
Who told you that an intense reading assignment would be given over the Summer? A professor sent email to entire cohort?
How many students in your cohort passed the class?
Hey Pollywog, here’s your response as promised.
When I say “non-linear” what I mean is my professor was not structured - often jumping around from following slides to having another thought and showing us images related to that thought, and then discussing something else. It was all over the place and hard to follow. To make it simpler let’s just say my prof had ‘ADD’.
Passing in our course is 73 points. We either failed by 1-4 points, or the majority who passed barely made it by 1-4 points.
Yes I, and the rest of us passed fundamentals. I would expect to know that material too. When professor would say “you learned this in fundamentals, right?” we (the students) would all look at each other and reply “N…No?”
I have not taken a pharmacology course. This will come when I reach my BSN (currently in an ADN program).
It was a split semester - first 1/2 OB, 2nd 1/2 Psych. Psych professor instructed us to not withdrawal yet that we still had 8 weeks to turn ourselves around just after telling us out loud “So I heard you failed OB miserably?” She also mentioned the morning section had the same outcome. They were able to pass psych, but failed OB exams miserably.
My explanation with my email 9 days in advance was an example or what we went through all semester. Listening to the other students - most of them said their emails were not answered throughout the semester. After it took my professor 1 week to answer mine, I understood everyone else. I’ve never had this issue with anyone else throughout my college career.
My Fundamentals professor told us we will be given an intensive reading assignment. It was never distributed. It only adds to the confusion of the schools Nursing program - promoting the inconsistencies in their product.
I don’t have statistics to say who passed and who failed. Failing, I’m estimating, was around 10-15 students. Some students remain quiet and don’t like to share their personal failures.
Look, there are many obvious discrepancies. This is very sloppy. I have 15 students behind me both passing and failing on this. It’s not just me. I just happen to be the one advocating for all of us.
Hey thanks for your reply. Your answers sound reasonable.Your initial post sounded disjointed & emotional but these answers sound logical. I need to go attend family event but will return later. I have worked with crappy professors that did bare minimum, the kind that would tell students asking questions to “look it up!” I would respond that they already did look it up in more than one book, they asked students in the class ahead of them now they are asking you to teach them! TTYL.
my professor was not structured - often jumping around from following slides to having another thought and showing us images related to that thought, and then discussing something else. It was all over the place and hard to follow.
This is called 'teaching'. If you want 'linear' read your textbook.
2 hours ago, StudentGamerAthlete said:
When professor would say “you learned this in fundamentals, right?” we (the students) would all look at each other and reply “N…No?”
And then you expected for the professor to teach you fundamentals? Once again refer to your previous notes, textbooks, lectures.
Fundamentals is so basic my husband (a CPA) passed one of my tests. Basic knowledge and common sense.
This course was OB/Psych. I taught oncology for many years....I had students who had no idea of the stages of human cell cycle....I didn't have any time to 'teach' that.
I think you are finding wide holes in the program....Why continue on if this is your experience? Move on!
2 hours ago, StudentGamerAthlete said:
I have not taken a pharmacology course. This will come when I reach my BSN (currently in an ADN program).
Pharmacology is part of ALL nursing programs LPN, Diploma, ADN, BSN. Do you want to be a nurse that does not give medications? That is called a CNA.
Learning pharmacology (drug) categories is considered the most optimal way to learn. Learn the suffixes...a 'cillin' is part of the penicillin category.. like 'ampicillin'. I think you do not understand that in your professional life you will encounter many old/new drugs you don't know but will need to infer some rationale for their use.
You: Doctor: are you going to order something for their anxiety?
MD: I ordered lorazepam
You: I mean ...for their anxiety, I was thinking Xanax
2 hours ago, StudentGamerAthlete said:
I don’t have statistics to say who passed and who failed. Failing, I’m estimating, was around 10-15 students. Some students remain quiet and don’t like to share their personal failures.
If you have any substance to your argument you need the statistics.
You know what I have found in 40+ years of education? Students will support their fellow students failing saying "h/s is not fair" "poor you. I am glad I studied the right things etc" "Fight this!""
I have had students have heated arguments in the classroom over "political views" and then hug at graduation.
2 hours ago, StudentGamerAthlete said:
Psych professor instructed us to not withdrawal yet that we still had 8 weeks to turn ourselves around just after telling us out loud “So I heard you failed OB miserably?”
2 hours ago, StudentGamerAthlete said:
They were able to pass psych, but failed OB exams miserably.
So when the course turned to psych, some students could turn their grade around? and you couldn't?
BTW most schools only have at the most 2 days in OB
2 hours ago, StudentGamerAthlete said:
Passing in our course is 73 points.
So the most test questions you had was 73 (plus 1-3 percentage or real number points)? You actually only had at the most 3 tests? Over a semester???
Did you have a program like ATI that you were able to use? I think you mentioned it earlier but I can't remember if this was in your previous post but these same arguments pop up on AN predictably in December and May of every year.
I sound harsh but I am explaining what you are up against in your arguments.
Sounds like this isn't the school for you. look elsewhere...find a better fit. Please respond whether this is a for-profit or community college.
FiremedicMike, BSN, RN, EMT-P
596 Posts
Yeah I gotta be honest, I think the pass rate of your entire class is going to be the most critical factor in whether or not your complaint is taken seriously..