Just finished my 2nd semester and failed along with many others. There were many discrepancies in my program that are listed in my letter to the chairperson of the Nursing department. Since our professors set us up for failure through BS education and lies I decided to throw them both under the bus. Do we stand a chance for our grade to be appealed? Most of us are 1-4 points within a passing grade. Those that did pass were just over that line. Professor X is notorious for listed reasons around our program (even those who have not had her as a professor) and outside of the school from nurses we have run into on clinical sites. And Professor Y lied to us to hurt our grades. 12 students agreed to allow me to CC them to state the facts are true, 3 students BCC’d, and a few others to remain anonymous. Thoughts?
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Professor E (chairperson),
I recently finished the 2nd semester (Maternity and Psychiatric Nursing Care - Nur 212) and have some deep concerns about the fairness of the program. I, and the students CC’d in this email* (as well as additional unnamed students who fear retaliation if they participate) feel it is important to raise certain concerns for the sake of our careers, our experience in (school name here), and the experience of future students. Included in this group are students who passed the course, as well as students who did not pass. All of us have the same concerns regardless of the outcome of our grades.
Overall, we believe that the class was not set up to allow students to succeed in a meaningful way due to the way the coursework was presented, taught, and tested. In addition, we don’t feel that we have been prepared to pass the course exams, as the course strategy was often “off-book,” non-linear, and often incomprehensible. This was not the experience of other students who were taught by other professors, as we learned after speaking with evening class students who do not report experiencing the same level of challenge with their professor. Additionally, to our knowledge, they had a much higher pass-rate than our class. We would thus request your review of the following points:
- We were underprepared and immediately behind the curve at the beginning of the semester because we were told we would be given an intense reading assignment over the Summer of 2021 that would prepare us for the Maternal and Newborn Nursing course. This reading was never distributed to the class.
- Professor X’ exams were on an advanced level of Nursing that was unrealistic, considering both our current level of critical knowledge and the mandatory (and expensive) prep material we purchased, which inadequately prepared us to pass these exams regardless of the time and effort spent in study.
- Professor X taught on the assumption that we were already educated in certain areas of Fundamentals of Nursing--information that we had never learned in the previous semester.
- Professor X stated she disagreed with the material in the required textbook. As dense as our coursework already is, this only made the experience more confusing, forced us to pursue further research for information she considered accurate, and unnecessarily complicated our curriculum.
- Professor X was either late to respond to student emails, or they were ignored. Personally, I asked for help on study strategy for success on the final exam 9 days in advance, and received a reply 48 hours before finals—far too late to be of any help.
- Professor Y, prior to her exams, inaccurately told us that we should focus on medication classes--not medication names. In fact, we were questioned on the exam for medication names. This cost us further points and significantly impacted our grade in the course. Upon confrontation with this discrepancy, Professor Y agreed that she had given us a false study tip, but was unwilling to remediate the situation, either by allowing us to retake the exam or to remediate that particular grade.
• - Prior to the final exam, Professor Y downplayed the difficulty of her exam, stating that her portion was ‘mild’ and that she recycles her questions from previous exams. Upon sitting for the test, we found it to be challenging and that the basic review of former material and questions that we had done in preparation left us unprepared. A far more in- depth focus on the material would have been required in order to successfully pass the test.
In sum, we believe your review of the course and our grades is in order. We invite you to have a conversation with us to discuss this experience, and to figure out the best way to move forward in a fair and equitable way. We strongly believe that many students who did not pass this course have fairly earned the right to move on to their next semester without repeating this set of classes – especially given the high costs (finances, time, personal sacrifice) associated with taking the class again.
Considering this experience, you can understand how dispirited many of us are—some even to the point of rethinking their future in this school, if not this career. Given that we were only allowed two on-site clinical experiences due to the pandemic, we also believe that consideration should be made for the lack of on-site educational benefits of an applied science.
We are eager to hear your thoughts on these matters. Please let us know your
availability to speak with us as a group. Since the next semester begins on January 28th, and we must have our plans in order well before then, we would appreciate an honest reply as soon as possible.
Thank you for your time and consideration. We would not have come forward if we didn’t truly believe we had a case.
Best regards,
My Name | Phone Number
*Please note: CC’d students have given me permission to include them in this letter with agreeance that the follow facts stated are true.
On 12/22/2021 at 9:14 AM, StudentGamerAthlete said:
There were many discrepancies in my program that are listed in my letter to the chairperson of the Nursing department.
What does your college handbook refer to as the procedure for handling disputed grades? Normally it is 10 days to appeal the grade. If you only sent an email, I would recommend sending a 'registered letter' or a letter with 'proof of mailing' to the college academic dean. While an email will have a time stamp, going through the USPS will prove time of receival.
Even though the college is on break, the USPS will note the date it was delivered.
PS Registered is better but more costly and will need a signature upon receival but it will prove the date you mailed it., Proof of mailing just shows you mailed something to them and the USPS delivered it. We always send our tax returns with proof of mailing and that seems to suffice. You are dealing with legal matters here....Make it legal!
Here is another lengthy reply but I hope it clarifies the limit of clinical time you experienced (in spite of Covid)
most schools only have at the most 2 days in OB clinical. I think you mentioned your clinicals were limited by covid. Sometime 3 days in psych may occur. The more 'credit 'hours you spend in clinical, the less that can be spent in the classroom. An ADN program is 60 credit hours, which includes the credit hours for English, A & P, micro etc. Previously, in diploma programs we did not have the limitation hours on clinical time and students spent 24 (3 shifts) hours on the floor. They needed little orientation but after an additional (2) 8 hours of lecture and lab, they had no life and on top of that they had to allow time to study.
I reread what I wrote previously and was harsh but what I wrote are some the arguments you are facing. Succinctly:
1) (percentage of those who passed or failed. Nailed down stats If you are using these in your argument)
2) results of any standardized testing such as ATI/HESI for your section (it is rare that a college would not have ATI but it is possible) (there are OB and Psych subject tests)
3) Any documentation you met with a tutor or contacted a professor for help throughout the program. Were you allowed to review your tests and did you do that? Was your final cumulative?
4) your test scores for ...any variation in each and every test in OB? Grading of written assignments. (from what I read previously meds were maybe not emphasized, did you do any 'drug cards'? Critique of those)
5) Test grades for psych which show improvement. Any grades, even if Satisfactory/Unsatisfactory on psych written assignments? Pysch is totally heavy with medications: (from what I read previously, did you do any 'drug cards'? Critique of those)
5) what is YOUR resolution? taking the class again, studying and taking a standardized subject test (such as ATI), getting grade changed to a pass or moving on?
I sound very HARSH but the crux of your argument here is not that the professor was a bad teacher, rather that you were a good learner.
When I say “non-linear” what I mean is my professor was not structured - often jumping around from following slides to having another thought and showing us images related to that thought, and then discussing something else. It was all over the place and hard to follow. To make it simpler let’s just say my prof had ‘ADD’.
Passing in our course is 73 points. We either failed by 1-4 points, or the majority who passed barely made it by 1-4 points.
Yes I, and the rest of us passed fundamentals. I would expect to know that material too. When professor would say “you learned this in fundamentals, right?” we (the students) would all look at each other and reply “N…No?”
I have not taken a pharmacology course. This will come when I reach my BSN (currently in an ADN program).
It was a split semester - first 1/2 OB, 2nd 1/2 Psych. Psych professor instructed us to not withdrawal yet that we still had 8 weeks to turn ourselves around just after telling us out loud “So I heard you failed OB miserably?” She also mentioned the morning section had the same outcome. They were able to pass psych, but failed OB exams miserably.
My explanation with my email 9 days in advance was an example or what we went through all semester. Listening to the other students - most of them said their emails were not answered throughout the semester. After it took my professor 1 week to answer mine, I understood everyone else. I’ve never had this issue with anyone else throughout my college career.
My Fundamentals professor told us we will be given an intensive reading assignment. It was never distributed. It only adds to the confusion of the schools Nursing program - promoting the inconsistencies in their product.
I don’t have statistics to say who passed and who failed. Failing, I’m estimating, was around 10-15 students. Some students remain quiet and don’t like to share their personal failures.
Look, there are many obvious discrepancies. This is very sloppy. I have 15 students behind me both passing and failing on this. It’s not just me. I just happen to be the one advocating for all of us.
In the community college nursing program, we lost five people over medication calculation. Two tries. Must score 100%. There were 16 of us. We didn't even finish our first semester yet. Exams. LOL. Forget it, man.
I have not taken a pharmacology course. This will come when I reach my BSN (currently in an ADN program).
Really? So, you don't know how to pass medications, too. What school is that? I haven't found a nursing school that doesn't teach a pharmacology class with other nursing theories and clinical. LPN/LVN, ADN, or BSN program has pharmacology courses. That's in the US. Cut my arm if I'm telling you BS.
Yes I, and the rest of us passed fundamentals. I would expect to know that material too. When professor would say “you learned this in fundamentals, right?” we (the students) would all look at each other and reply “N…No?”
You have to read just like the rest of us. I study. Why should you get a free pass?
Frankly, you should know your fundamentals of nursing. Not all of it, but you should have some foundations.
In my second semester, I was already having a few patients in med-surg of an acute hospital. Too many medications. I gave parenteral medications already. I also put perfectly IVs in, drew blood, gave parenteral/subq/oral meds and vaccines, assessed patients, and other nursing skills that I can do with independently. There's no way I can do this without the fundamental of nursing. Yes, I had to know those meds I gave. I still have my notes and med cards created by me. I owe those nurses for patiently taking their time for me. Of course, I owe my professors for pushing me to better myself.
All nurses who taught me told me that I have to read and understand why and what I'm doing and pass my nursing classes, so I can sit for the NCLEX. Nobody told me not to read. Almost everybody around me is a nurse. They don't coach me to cheat. They told me to read the books I paid for. So, if you need your teachers to hold your hands at all times, I don't know if they can afford to keep you.
On 12/25/2021 at 7:21 AM, StudentGamerAthlete said:
If that’s the case then I might actually have a shot!
The ratings are there and they speak the truth. Many unhappy campers. Still waiting for a 1st reply which will probably come after the new year. I’ll know what to do next (if anything) after I hear back.
Actually no, I do not agree and yeah I checked my ratings which were good but they can be biased and they are not considered reliable.
Really? So, you don't know how to pass medications, too. What school is that? I haven't found a nursing school that doesn't teach a pharmacology class with other nursing theories and clinical. LPN/LVN, ADN, or BSN program has pharmacology courses. That's in the US. Cut my arm if I'm telling you BS.
I have to agree with HoneyBee & Londonflo. I started as an LPN, back in the late 70’s, LPNs were the Med nurses for an entire unit! We made Med cards, gave meds by various routes; oral, subq,IM, rectal, lady partsl, Ng etc. Now I am really confused! What was the name of the course you took where you learned medication classes? Didn’t you learn medication administration in Fundamentals? I have taught fundamentals, medication administration is part of this along with skills such as foleys,NG tube inserts, wounds/dressings, ADLs/bathing etc. Also confused about your statement that you are in ADN program & pharmacology will be taught when you go to BSN program. Can you please share each semester curriculum/courses?
After all this discussion.....and there could be better ideas....as I have suffered and am suffering in my program due to their grading and appeals policy that is not properly followed (because firstly they don't want to entertain any appeals....and they want to just get rid of you, and if you try to talk to the teacher for further clarification she is does not want to bother about it and wants to go on her vacation/break or will accuse you of bullying and will have you suspended, etc). This is from a nationally ranked nursing program....Perhaps look at other ways I think....I tried looking outside the college and have not been successful. Are there any legal remedies or something else within the college/university whom you can try to talk to. l feel in my case since I am on the verge of being kicked out.....for no proper reason (given 2 warnings for not agreeing to what they wanted to throw at me....and it is wrong for them to treat me this way)....I talked to a few lawyers and they told me just to swallow the hard pill and get through the program. There is the risk of losing all the money and time you have invested in this program. I am just 4 classes away, and unfortunately, there aren't that many teachers who would teach a course. And one is stuck with just one professor. I wish I had know that the courses that they don't teach well is not because of not going over the material adequately, but because of the nonsensical attitude of these so called educators....which unfortunately makes it hard for us students looking to be taught properly and graded fairly.
Sorry, I wish I could help more....and actually thank you for posting this question! It can perhaps highlight the problems in program/s. If you go into teaching go into it with a kind, open-minded heart not to make other's life miserable that they maybe tempted to pass along this anger to others later on in life.
Please respond whether this is a for-profit or community college.
I’m going to say this sounds like a for profit program based on just description of the courses & description of faculty doing a variety of things. OP, how long has this program been in existence? What’s the NCLEX pass rate?
One thing that stands out to me in this thread is that there's a few things that I now appreciate about my program, the biggest being that our instructors work in the fields they're teaching. Our OB instructors are experienced and active OB nurses, the peds instructors had decades of experience of inpatient peds nursing, our psych instructors were practicing PMHNPs, and every class has at least one DNP.
One thing that stands out to me in this thread is that there's a few things that I now appreciate about my program, the biggest being that our instructors work in the fields they're teaching. Our OB instructors are experienced and active OB nurses, the peds instructors had decades of experience of inpatient peds nursing, our psych instructors were practicing PMHNPs, and every class has at least one DNP.
I am so happy you can say that....because inspite of having this in place....there are a good number of classes where I have had my share of extremely bad teachers (overall). And it is a sad reality many of the students have had to deal with. Wish there was a way to fix this problem. Any suggestions anyone?
londonflo
3,002 Posts
What does your college handbook refer to as the procedure for handling disputed grades? Normally it is 10 days to appeal the grade. If you only sent an email, I would recommend sending a 'registered letter' or a letter with 'proof of mailing' to the college academic dean. While an email will have a time stamp, going through the USPS will prove time of receival.
Even though the college is on break, the USPS will note the date it was delivered.
PS Registered is better but more costly and will need a signature upon receival but it will prove the date you mailed it., Proof of mailing just shows you mailed something to them and the USPS delivered it. We always send our tax returns with proof of mailing and that seems to suffice. You are dealing with legal matters here....Make it legal!