ADN's being pushed out

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I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned ADN nurses are being fired. The excuses for firing are ridiculous. I have sadly seen some excellent nurses lose their jobs. I am wondering if they want to get rid of the ADNs so they can look "better" with an all BSN staff. Or perhaps they want rid of older nurses who have been there longer because they are higher on the pay scale. Either way, it is very scarey. I myself am BSN, and i am not ashamed to say that what I know does not hold a candle to these fired nurses. Any thoughts?

Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

Don't get me wrong. I am happy you in a good situation. However many nurses have absolutely no one to help them either financially or even to babysit while they are coerced to go back to school for an RN-BSN program...

I do my additional coursework at night when the baby is sleeping; no one has to babysit him. I work full time and support the family while finishing my DNP. Everyone has a unique situation, that I can appreciate, but mine is not "abnormal" in any respect. I work hard to advance myself.

...which has no bearing on the quality of patient...

According to you and what you choose to believe, which is your prerogative. Employers base their decisions on the evidence that is currently available; this evidence shows there is a significant difference in outcomes.

and where most of the coursework is redundant and serves no other purpose but to add to the revenue coffers of four year nursing programs and those who run them.

Just because the same material may be covered it does not (necessarily) mean that it is redundant. I covered diabetes in A&P 2, again in intro to nursing, again in med surg, again in med surg 2, again in pediatrics, again in OB, again in synthesis; further I covered it at least a half-dozen times in graduate school. Same "material" but each and every time that "material" was covered I learned it in more depth.

I believe I did indeed answer all of your questions; just not with the answers you would have liked.
As example, I asked you to further explain in a previous post why you chose to link to data from 2011 rather than 2010 or 2012 or 2013? And why you thought the data you did link proved your point when there was no statistical significance to the data?

And talking about questions; after two years no one has yet been able to provide any evidence that more BSN nurses = better patient outcomes other than partial interests who stand to gain by having nurses run back to school. And the reason is, just like bigfoot, the evidence is non-existent.

Again, there have been a half-dozen major studies that have all concluded the same thing. You choose not to accept those studies because they are part of the "nursing conspiracy", which you are free to do, it just doesn't mean they "don't exist". More importantly, there are no published studies that refute any of the results from the half-dozen or so "conspiracy" studies.

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Specializes in Medical-Surgical/Float Pool/Stepdown.
Do you think patient care technicians/care partners/CNA's will end up filling the void from the lack of LPN/ADN's at magnet hospitals? How can there be a good patient to nurse ratio if all nurses in a magnet hospital are have their BSN? How can the hospital afford them all?

Had to put in my two cents in here as an ADN to BSN nurse (that works for a MAGNET hospital)...the hospital can afford all those BSN nurses because they make the same wages as the ADN/Diploma RN's do...:sarcastic: We all get paid the same... :roflmao:

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As I've stated time and time again, the only pro BSN information has come from those affiliated with institutions who stand to gain from the influx of students into these programs. Institutions such as the ANA and IOM are prime examples. I am resting my case as not one shred of information has been presented from an unbiased source.

Besides, our lawmakers are busy with another piece of idiocy called Obamacare which incidentally the ANA supported. It has been estimated that if not repealed or changed dramatically, the ACA will result in a loss (that's right a loss) of nearly 800,000 healthcare jobs due to the cost cutting by providing less care as well the consolidation of healthcare networks.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
As I've stated time and time again the only pro BSN information has come from those affiliated with institutions who stand to gain from the influx of students into these programs. Institutions such as the ANA and IOM are prime examples. I am resting my case as not one shred of information has been presented from an unbiased source. [/quote']

Is it really a surprise to you that research is being conducted in major academic centers? If the data is biased, then please, point out where the bias is rather than just state if must be invalid because of the institution it was conducted under. Do you believe clinical trails are invalid?

Are the individuals biased because they hold bachelors or masters or doctorate degrees themselves? Do you see many ADN's running studies and publishing?

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Is it really a surprise to you that research is being conducted in major academic centers? If the data is biased, then please, point out where the bias is rather than just state if must be invalid because of the institution it was conducted under. Do you believe clinical trails are invalid?

P. Benner, Aiken, M.White, J.Haebler; it's the same old song and dance from these people. No, it's not a surprise this nonsense is being put out by major academic centers. They get large grants and government funding to for this research. They also have people whose sole job it is to conjure up this stuff. And the more students they get running back to these programs, the more grant money and government funding they will qualify for. And don't forgot those nice bonuses the people running these programs will get.

ADNS don't have all that funding at their disposal. They're also busy working and taking care of their families rather than sitting in an ivory tower trying to tell all nurses what's best for them.

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Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.

The latest push for funding is loan forgiveness for financing of post-graduate degrees. It works like this. Make a specious prediction that a calamitous nursing shortage is set to reappear in 2020. Make up a very large number of nurses who will be needed and note that there are presently not enough faculty to teach all these nurses who will be needed. Make sure this is the case by declaring that very soon current master's prepared faculty need to get the most recent iteration of a nursing doctorate.

When you read every day about current nursing grads losing houses and grateful to get their high-school fast food jobs back the term "loan forgiveness" referring to themselves makes me sick. I know an awful lot of people who could use some of that largesse.

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The latest push for funding is loan forgiveness for financing of post-graduate degrees. It works like this. Make a specious prediction that a calamitous nursing shortage is set to reappear in 2020. Make up a very large number of nurses who will be needed and note that there are presently not enough faculty to teach all these nurses who will be needed. Make sure this is the case by declaring that very soon current master's prepared faculty need to get the most recent iteration of a nursing doctorate.

Excellent. I knew this was going on; just not to this large of a degree. I'd like to investigate it further.

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Specializes in ICU.

There are several reasons why these nurses are being pushed out. One could be pay level. Making room for cheaper, new grad, nurses. I hate that this happens but it does. And it happens in every, single profession, not just nursing. When you start to make so much money you are not cost effective for this hospital to employ. The best employee for a business is one that is fairly new so they are cheap, and have just enough experience that they don't have to spend money to train.

Another reason probably is age. This happens all the time also. Young, healthy nurses don't call off as much as older nurses. And hey, I'm 38 so I will be joining the over 40 crowd sooner rather than later and know this will be an issue for me when I graduate. It almost seems like over 50 is that magic number anymore.

Maybe these nurses are not wanting to get their BSN and being a magnet hospital, that's what they want. Until the BON makes the NCLEX different for an ADN than a BSN I don't find there is any difference. The only difference between the two right now is that a BSN has a half semester more prereqs than I will have and those are in things like music and history. Not any nursing classes. Personally I think it is a waste of money. They aren't even paid differently. I will eventually get my BSN so I can get my dream job but I will be content with my ADN. It won't make me any less of a nurse than a BSN. The fact that nurses are being fired over this is wrong.

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Specializes in ICU.

I haven't noticed that older nurses "call out sick more." As a matter of fact, most of the overtime is done by us "older" nurses at my hospital. The younger ones call out a lot more because they have kids at home who may be sick, have babies, or they call out sick so they can watch a football game, go on a date, etc. I am creeping towards 60 and very rarely call out, but I work at least 2 days extra per pay period. My supervisor is about to be 80, still works full-time and never calls out!

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Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
I haven't noticed that older nurses "call out sick more." As a matter of fact most of the overtime is done by us "older" nurses at my hospital. The younger ones call out a lot more because they have kids at home who may be sick, have babies, or they call out sick so they can watch a football game, go on a date, etc. I am creeping towards 60 and very rarely call out, but I work at least 2 days extra per pay period. My supervisor is about to be 80, still works full-time and never calls out![/quote']

This!!!!

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I've enjoyed the many viewpoints on this thread. However, I feel this boils down to one simple thing.... "restructuring". This happens so much in the business world and that's what managed health care has come to be; business. Consumer/customer/client seeking a service from a provider. No longer is it: patient seeking medical care from a doctor or nurse. "Restructuring" is a mixed bag of change for every aspect of a healthcare entity: layoffs, cross-training, changed hiring practices, eliminating positions, merging positions, creating new positions, changed job descriptions, cutting costs, changing minimal credential requirements for professional licensed staff....I could go on and on.

ADN nursing is very much a part of healthcare and is experiencing this "restructuring". This brings about many hard,difficult choices that are far reaching for both employer and employee but most importantly why healthcare exists; the patient.

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I guess they're the next on the chopping block! Hospitals had some awesome, seasoned LPN's who knew more than many RN's. Experience in this business is paramount, just because someone graduates with a BSN, doesn't make them more qualified! My home care agency hired a bunch of nurses from an almost IVY league school, and they couldn't take a simple blood pressure properly, lung sounds, what???? It seems to be all about appearance, don't get me wrong, having a BSN is wonderful, but it should all come down to that individuals experience and competency, not degree.

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