ADN's being pushed out

avengingspirit1 · Jan 18, 2014

I agree with just about everything you said. Just not sure about the older nurses calling out more often than the younger ones. I guess it varies from place to place. Besides older nurses being higher on the pay scale, the younger nurses may still have student loan debt, car payments or even mortgages to pay off. They may be less likely to put up a fight about things such as dangerous patient loads for fear of termination. I am about 13 years older than you although being involved with health and fitness since I was 13, I'm told I look and act like someone in their mid 30s. But you're probably right about the age factor. I've tried to take some years off my resume so as to at least have a fighting chance. I've been accepted into a couple of RN-BSN programs. But I can't see putting out the money if no one is hiring. Plus I already have a business degree on top of nursing and don't feel that having a BSN will make any difference to a patient. It's more experience that will make me a better nurse.

NurseGirl525, ASN, RN · Jan 19, 2014

Let me clarify something. I didn't mean that I think that older nurses call out sick more. Sorry if that is how I came across. I mean that how is how the HR dept. sees it. Hope that makes sense.

lumbarpain, ADN, RN · Jan 20, 2014

The LTC facility I worked for downsized due to increasing budget problems....this facility had seasoned nurses and other staff working there for many years.....but yet......they started to let us all go one at a time...starting with social services.....this was back during the beginning of the economy problems..in 2008. I had numerous severe problems I had to deal with on top of it all which involved moving out of state because the house I was in was being sold against my will....it was my brothers house(my parents who were deceased) and he wanted to sell it....I was left to find another life.....so..I went to Vermont...a wonderful state and I had a friend there.....I couldn't get a full time RN position....only per diem and one part time which the facility was later shut down by the state.....it wasn't a happy time for me. I wanted to stay in Vermont so badly. I was on unemployment for almost 1 and half years.....thank God for those extensions....and I searched desperately night and day for a good job there....I didn't.....I had to move back home to NJ....a nightmare...but I managed to have 2 prospective nursing jobs waiting for me to get my NJ license. At that time it was after Hurricane Sandy hit and the Nursing Board was having a lot of difficulties with their paperwork and computers. I waited for that license for 4 months...it hurt me badly while waiting and it destroyed a relationship I had with a good friend...due to the large house we both rented out....so.....I left again to Virginia to live with my brother.....and I really don't want to be here and are still having difficulty finding a position and I feel mostly its because of my continuous moving and not having a steady work history and not having a BSN. I cannot afford much of anything if I don't get back into my regular line of LTC work. Its been horrible for me. So depressing all I wanted to do was sleep and not wake up. So....once I get a regular job I will go for my BSN....I am just a diploma nurse now but my experience working up front and personal with my patients doesn't match more learning in books...but this is what they call for now. I am hoping soon that My Lord above provides me with a regular position so I can get my life back on track again.

avengingspirit1 · Jan 20, 2014

Let me clarify something. I didn't mean that I think that older nurses call out sick more. Sorry if that is how I came across. I mean that how is how the HR dept. sees it. Hope that makes sense.

I think you're exactly right. Honestly, I never did hold human resources people in high regards and generally try to bypass them at all costs. They're another bunch of phonies.

avengingspirit1 · Apr 22, 2014

As as far as the BSN goes, it's just another part of this phony degree inflation going on today which is merely scheme to suck more money from the pockets of students and professionals and line the pockets of people and organizations who are in any remote way affiliated with four year institutions. I've spoken to physical therapists here in Phila., PA who told me that changing the requirements from an entry-level master's degree to a D.PT program only served to put PTs into more debt upon graduation and did nothing to enhance the practice of physical therapy. Even professional degree programs have been so watered-down that they have much less value than they did some 40 years ago. And why? Because schools like to promote a large percentage of graduates as a marketing tool and a way to qualify for more funding.

Any nurse with an ounce of sense will tell you that the BSN is very long on the BS part and short on the N part. And to keep the dollars flowing, once they can convince nurses to run back for BSNs, they'll then say nurses need a master's to elevate the profession. The thing nurse employers love to hear is that you're thousands of dollars in debt. They know these nurses are less likely to speak up about unsafe patient loads and the other unethical things that go on in hospitals.

Forcing an RN to get a BSN is an easy way to thin the herd. It gives employers an indication of who are the most gullible and easy to manipulate. As for me; I'd rather spend the money investing in a business rather than helping to line the pockets of nurse academic elitists so they can keep their cushy, never-having-to-produce-results positions. Also, as a result of declining reimbursements to providers due to the Affordable Care Act, many hospitals will be downsizing and consolidating. A nurse can spend thousands of dollars getting that BSN and find they may no longer have a job. If a hospital claims they are laying nurses off due to economic reasons, they no longer have to honor tuition reimbursement contracts. In my area here in Phila., a major university hospital just let many NPs go. Another university health system here just downsized and laid off a bunch of healthcare providers across the board. And it didn't matter whether they had ADNs, BSNs or MSNs. These are the things L. Aiken, Maureen T. White and Janet Haebler will not tell you. Nursing academic elitists are only concerned with keeping their positions.

Anyone who will tell you that the BSN and Magnet Status push is not money-driven is either lying, stupid or both.

avengingspirit1 · Apr 25, 2014

Never said anyone was "sub-par". I have been a nurse for 30yrs and was a ADN went back to school for my BSN, MSN and post master's. I am not feeling sorry for myself or my choices I have made. I am stating fact. As a profession we need to elevate ourselves. I have seen more than one post that ADN's post about being pushed out. Hospitals are making the choice for us BSN is all we hire, end of discussion.

Hospitals are making that wrong choice because the twits in administration and human resources were easily manipulated by a piece of garbage study that came out in 2003 whose only purpose was to increase the flow of students (aka cash) into the high -priced four year university BSN programs and eliminate the lower cost competition; hospital-based and associate programs. The numbers in my area show that hospitals only hiring nurses based on education and not experience as well as past performance are at the bottom third of the patient satisfaction score list.

There are great, competent nurses at all levels; ADN, Associates and Bachelor prepared. Anyone who believes that the degree makes the nurse is an absolute idiot. And hospitals will start to figure that out as their patient satisfaction score edge downward and the lawsuits start coming.

People need to get it into their heads that the nursing academic elitists driving the BSN push care about only one thing; increasing the cash flow for all those individuals and institutions who are in any way connected to this degree inflation scheme which is one of the biggest scams going in this country next to Obamacare. Incidentally, as a result of Obamacare, many healthcare facilities are starting to downsize due to declining reimbursements. Nurses may want to really think twice before going into more debt. A major university hospital here Phila. recently let go a bunch of NPs. Another university hospital just downsized across the board. And if nurses are let go due to economic reasons, a hospital doesn't have to honor a tuition reimbursement contract.

applewhitern, BSN, RN · Apr 25, 2014

The hospitals in my area do not offer tuition reimbursement for people who are already RN's. Some offer to assist with LPN to RN tuition, however, for a 2 year contract.

lmccrn62, MSN, RN · Apr 25, 2014

Why nurses don't expect more from themselves is beyond me. The research has been very clear for a long time that nurses with BSN that their patients have better outcomes including a lower mortality rate. Now CMS has told us that patient who are readmitted for certain diagnoses are penalized. Again the higher level RN is necessary to provide the education, assessment skills and the knowledge of the research and best practices to assist in meeting those requirements.

No one argues that there are good nurses at all levels but for the best patient outcomes BSN or better is necessary.

avengingspirit1 · Apr 25, 2014

Writing papers on contemporary nursing thought in APA format in an RN-BSN program will not influence patient outcomes in the least. That's the propaganda being sold, especially to the younger nurses, to get them running back to school for the benefit of all those who will gain monetarily from it. However, experience, knowing what to do in critical situations and certifications that demonstrate proficiency and excellence in specialty areas will affect patient outcomes. Please don't throw garbage from that flawed 2003 study at me. It's been debunked for the fallacy it is many times over in the last ten years. I don't even think the people who published it believe it anymore.

avengingspirit1 · Apr 25, 2014

I've been hearing the same thing from nurses here in Phila. that many new BSN grads are deficient in basic nursing skills such as taking a manual BP. I've been told many are even carrying their nursing textbooks onto the floor with them. And this is what hospitals want to hire! Wait till the lawsuits come. In the meantime don't get sick. By the way, love the picture of Pinhead. I'm a Hellraiser fan.

allnurses Guide · Apr 26, 2014

Writing papers on contemporary nursing thought in APA format in an RN-BSN program will not influence patient outcomes in the least.
Please don't throw garbage from that flawed 2003 study at me. It's been debunked for the fallacy it is many times over in the last ten years. I don't even think the people who published it believe it anymore.

Citations please. Saying something over and over doesn't make it true, as much as you may wish it.

The "debunked" study from 2003 (which I have never read a refuting paper for, so please share) has been repeated both in the US and internationally more than a half dozen times with similar outcomes.

allnurses Guide · Apr 26, 2014

I've been hearing the same thing from nurses here in Phila. that many new BSN grads are deficient in basic nursing skills such as taking a manual BP.

Wow. Another totally unbiased objective example.