ADN's being pushed out

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I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned ADN nurses are being fired. The excuses for firing are ridiculous. I have sadly seen some excellent nurses lose their jobs. I am wondering if they want to get rid of the ADNs so they can look "better" with an all BSN staff. Or perhaps they want rid of older nurses who have been there longer because they are higher on the pay scale. Either way, it is very scarey. I myself am BSN, and i am not ashamed to say that what I know does not hold a candle to these fired nurses. Any thoughts?

Specializes in Hospital Education Coordinator.

just a word about certifications - they do not "prove" that the nurse knows more, but that the nurse is willing to learn more. Once I received my certification I was obliged to take many more hours of CNE pertaining to my field.

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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
A few important things:

Th NCLEX is a national exam not a state exam.

There is no statistically significant difference between diploma pass rates and BSN pass rates.

There is a statistically significant difference between BSN and ADN pass rates.

Do you understand why it is important to look at significance not just the raw data? Without statistical significance you can not claim superiority of one over the other.

Objectively if i were going to publish in this, looking at the 2011 data in isolation and using NCLEX pass rates as a measure of outcome, I would conclude that there is no superiority of BSN programs over diploma programs. There is superiority of BSN programs over ADN programs.

I realize you chose to link to the 2011 data because it seems like the raw data supports your position. So why did you choose the 2011 data and not the 2012 or 2013 data?

I think that the 2011 data suggests that something needs to be done about these for profit pop up schools with these fly by night programs that charge a fortune and do not deliver a quality degree.
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Specializes in Critical Care, ED, Cath lab, CTPAC,Trauma.
It's for the greater good of nursing as a profession. Nurses are looks down upon. People think nurses are nothing but physicians assistants or handmaidens. That we are subpar practitioners. As much as these misconceptions bother me, there are reasons nurses don't have the recognition they should. To be considered exports, scientists, practitioners and autonomous professionals nursing needs to get rid of all these technical/ vocational entry points. (LPN, ADN) Other clinicians like physicians, PA's, pharmacists, or social workers don't have associate degrees. Why should nurses? I think nurses should have to undergo a similar pre-nursing tract as pre-meds are required. This is the only way we will progress as health care providers.
You suggested in another thread that you think "getting rid" of the ADN and LPN's is a positive move forward in the profession with Masters degree at the bedside.....I couldn't disagree with you more.

I am NOT looked down upon nor have I ever been. We are NOT subpar practitioners and I have always been respected by my community and peers.

While that may be your personal experience or feelings....it is NOT however the experience of the majority. I assure you that while I was assisting that patient still trapped in their vehicle in the dead of winter after an accident....they were NOT thinking I was subpar.

I went to school at a brick and mortar 4 year respected college NOT a vocational or technical school...while I agree that nursing needs one level of entry to stop this incessant debate.

However.....I feel that being a bedside nurse in a noble profession that is well respected.

No one can make you feel inferior without your consent"........ Eleanor Roosevelt

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
I think that the 2011 data suggests that something needs to be done about these for profit pop up schools with these fly by night programs that charge a fortune and do not deliver a quality degree.

So true.

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I sooo agree. I have 10 yr exp on fire dept as paramedic, and recently became a adn @ 47, My teachers always felt I was far above the crowd bc of my exp yet I could not find a job with adn. Only thru luck and great connections I got a job in home health. So far I like it bc of the flexibility. At my age I'm torn with do I stay an adn, now 50, or go on for a bs, I would have to pay for it bc my job doesn't reimburse like a hospital would. Then if I get it I'm afraid I still won't get a local job bc I'm too old, with no real exp. Of course I feel not to old, and I have acute skills, and a lot to offer, but that's the feeling I got already.

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True that X 1000. It also would seem that these elitists think they have a monopoly on the nursing profession.

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Specializes in cardiac.

My hospital is also starting an incentive to have our nurses BSN prepared by 2020. I'm not sure the details of who will be "grandfathered" in, but I see more and more BSN nurses being hired and less ASN nurses being hired. I currently hold an ASN. I've been a nurse for eight years. I'm currently enrolled for my BSN. I heard of similar situations happening at area hospitals where staff were fired for no real apparent reason. Most were ASN. I'm wondering if they were trying to weed those out or get rid of "problem" nurses. Thanks for the post.

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Specializes in Step-Down.

Graduated in May with my ASN after being an LPN for 2 years. Just got a job full time at a major area hospital and its unionized! Boom Shaka Laka!!

Of course still going for my BSN but there is hope!!!!

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In response to AOttinger:

Were these ASN nurses who were fired older nurses with many years of experience? I have been told by nurses in my area that many of the older nurses (when I say older, I'm talking 40s and 50s) were fired simply because hospitals could now hire new younger nurses at the bottom of the pay scale. I was also told that new young nurses with more student loan debt are less likely to are less likely to speak out about things such as unsafe patient loads.

It's a very sad but true fact that hospitals are primarily concerned with revenue rather than patient care. Remember, it's not the type of program that makes the nurse; it's the nurse that makes the nurse. Get the BSN because it's something you want to do for yourself, not because you're feel you are being forced to do it. Also remember that many hospitals have affiliations with four year universities and if the majority of nurses go back for BSNs, next they will push the Master's Degree. It's a way to keep revenue flowing into the schools.

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In response to BostonFNP:

("Halfway through my DNP, would be done but I actually had a hard time deciding between DNP vs PhD. I have a baby at home and a new mortgage. I precept students to cove the cost of school, and I sty up an extra hour or two at night to fit it into the day." May 10,2013)

How about letting readers know that you most likely have a significant other who helps you significantly; which is why you're able to have a baby, a new mortgage and pursue a doctorate.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
In response to BostonFNP: ("Halfway through my DNP would be done but I actually had a hard time deciding between DNP vs PhD. I have a baby at home and a new mortgage. I precept students to cove the cost of school, and I sty up an extra hour or two at night to fit it into the day." May 10,2013) How about letting readers know that you most likely have a significant other who helps you significantly; which is why you're able to have a baby, a new mortgage and pursue a doctorate.[/quote']

Not that it is really any of your business to assume anything about my life, I will happily "tell the readers" about my personal life.

I have a lovely wife. She works 12 hours a week for a non-profit and spends three more days a week as a caregiver for her ailing mother. Of course she helps significantly with my life, she's my spouse and the mother of my child. She provides invaluable emotional support.

She does not make a significant financial contribution. So, now that I have responded, how about you tell the readers why this is a factor?

Or maybe respond to my previous several questions that you have dodged....

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In response to BostonFNP:

"Not that it is really any of your business to assume anything about my life, I will happily "tell the readers" about my personal life.

I have a lovely wife. She works 12 hours a week for a non-profit and spends three more days a week as a caregiver for her ailing mother. Of course she helps significantly with my life, she's my spouse and the mother of my child. She provides invaluable emotional support.

She does not make a significant financial contribution. So, now that I have responded, how about you tell the readers why this is a factor?

Or maybe respond to my previous several questions that you have dodged...."

Don't get me wrong. I am happy you in a good situation. However many nurses have absolutely no one to help them either financially or even to babysit while they are coerced to go back to school for an RN-BSN program which has no bearing on the quality of patient and where most of the coursework is redundant and serves no other purpose but to add to the revenue coffers of four year nursing programs and those who run them.

I believe I did indeed answer all of your questions; just not with the answers you would have liked. And talking about questions; after two years no one has yet been able to provide any evidence that more BSN nurses = better patient outcomes other than partial interests who stand to gain by having nurses run back to school. And the reason is, just like bigfoot, the evidence is non-existent.

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