ADN's being pushed out

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I work for a large Magnet hospital. As nursing becomes more popular, and nurses not in short supply, I have noticed something ominous has being going on lately. Several of our older and very seasoned ADN nurses are being fired. The excuses for firing are ridiculous. I have sadly seen some excellent nurses lose their jobs. I am wondering if they want to get rid of the ADNs so they can look "better" with an all BSN staff. Or perhaps they want rid of older nurses who have been there longer because they are higher on the pay scale. Either way, it is very scarey. I myself am BSN, and i am not ashamed to say that what I know does not hold a candle to these fired nurses. Any thoughts?

Responding to Laurie52,

"After reading all your posts, I get that you are opposed to the BSN, but I am not sure why. If you want to be a nurse, it only makes sense to me that you would get a bachelor's degree in nursing."

If you've reads my post, then you should know that I am not opposed to the BSN. I am only opposed to it being mandated especially for nurses who have been practicing for many years and have demonstrated the ability to adapt to new information and technology.

About a decade ago, there was talk of making bachelor's degrees instead of four. This could have been easily done by simply chipping away at some of the needless garbage that degree programs are bloated with to rake in more tuition money. The colleges and universities screamed bloody murder because they stood to lose revenue.

Colleges and universities are a business and as I said before; if anyone says otherwise, they're either flat-out naive or they're flat-out lying.

I am not opposed to higher education. I am opposed to what's it's become today; and it has little to do with the welfare of the students.

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Specializes in Going to Peds!.

Not sure if I posted this earlier. I can't seem to find if I did. I've been looking at RN-BSN programs. My local state university requires so many electives & general education credits in addition to the nursing portion that I'll end up spending $20-24k to get a bsn there. That's bull. To make $1/hr more? It'll take me over 15 years to recoup that expenditure with the income increase. Sorry. I'm smarter than that. I'm not signing up for that. And I'm DEFINITELY not taking student loans for that! No way in heck!!

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Specializes in SICU/CVICU.
Not sure if I posted this earlier. I can't seem to find if I did. I've been looking at RN-BSN programs. My local state university requires so many electives & general education credits in addition to the nursing portion that I'll end up spending $20-24k to get a bsn there. That's bull. To make $1/hr more? It'll take me over 15 years to recoup that expenditure with the income increase. Sorry. I'm smarter than that. I'm not signing up for that. And I'm DEFINITELY not taking student loans for that! No way in heck!!

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That is what a university degree is! Those electives are meant to broaden your world view. They teach you how to critically think and to become a life long learner.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
Sorry. I'm smarter than that. I'm not signing up for that.

That's your prerogative and I don't necessarily blame up for making that choice, it's a hard number to swallow. Most employers would cover part if not all of it, or rather, they should.

On the other side of the coin that choice is made knowing that it may limit your advancement or your competitiveness in the job market if you elect to change jobs.

In the end, it's a choice.

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Specializes in Going to Peds!.

That is what a university degree is! Those electives are meant to broaden your world view. They teach you how to critically think and to become a life long learner.

I know how to think critically. I'm an avid reader (& not just of fiction). I am a fan of logic problems, brain teasers, riddles, etc. I'm well read & continually self-educated. I do not see a valid reason to spend that much for something I already know or have exposed myself to previously. Lifelong learning isn't about paying $20k to a university for their piece of paper so you can put initials behind your name. Lifelong learning is about YOU, the learner, getting out there & diving into subjects that intrigue you or are pertinent to your lifestyle & livelihood.

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Specializes in Going to Peds!.

That's your prerogative and I don't necessarily blame up for making that choice, it's a hard number to swallow. Most employers would cover part if not all of it, or rather, they should.

On the other side of the coin that choice is made knowing that it may limit your advancement or your competitiveness in the job market if you elect to change jobs.

In the end, it's a choice.

Oh, very true. In the end, I'll find the least expensive, quickest route to obtaining the piece of paper that everyone else says I "need". As above, that piece of paper doesn't make me an avid, voracious lifelong learner. That's a mindset you either have or don't. And it's a mindset that YOU control. Not the university. Not the BON. Not your employer.

Tuition reimbursement is limited to either $1000 or $1500 per semester. (I can't recall the exact number.) In exchange, I have to sign a contract. No thanks. I don't need to indenture myself. I'll have kids in college in 4-5 years. I'll need to at least help them a little.

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In response to BostonFNP:

You're right. My oversight, I should have better qualified my response. The pass rates of BSN graduates were significantly higher than those who graduated from Associate's Programs.

But the pass rates of diploma program graduates were slightly higher than those of BSN graduates; however not significantly. Could it possibly be because most hospital diploma programs are 3 years straight through the summers as opposed to 2 yr associate programs? That would require another study. You're also right in that we can't be sure of the sample size of each group.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
That is what a university degree is! Those electives are meant to broaden your world view. They teach you how to critically think and to become a life long learner.

Many Nurses entered Nursing after broadening their world view with years and years of life experience between high school and Nursing including a whole different career, so shouldn't it be required that all Nurses experience a different career first?

A local ADN program, mainly because they can, requires a previous bachelors degree to apply, so their ADN graduates are entering Nursing with the full complement of bachelors electives, the core Nursing program, and 2 years of a whole different degree, why shouldn't all Nurses be required to have a bachelor's degree in another discipline as well as their degree in Nursing?

RN to BSN programs are typically around 45 credits despite the fact that many of these Nurses graduated from programs that fell closer to 15 credits short of a BSN program, which means RN to BSN grads are finishing a BSN with 30 more credits than regular BSN grads in many cases, so why should we allow regular BSN grads to be a Nurse?

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I have a B.S. in another field. Just so I can look like a tool like all the BSN's with "RN, BSN" on their jackets, I had "RN, BSB" put on mine.

Nursing is the only field that puts their B.S. on their items so maybe it's time those of us with B.S. in another field start doing the same so we can look as exciting.

On a similar note, other careers recognize the B.S. from a wide variety of fields but the self-important leaders of nursing are hell-bent on only recognizing the BSN. Maybe it's time people outside of nursing start saying sorry to the BSN when BSN's are looking to do something else.

I already have a Bachelor's degree. I went later in life and got an ADN. There is absolutely no reason why that shouldn't be recognized as equivalent. I work at a hospital and just recently had a discussion about this with the house supervisor. As we were laughing about the ridiculousness of all of this, she told me she'd prefer me there if she had a heart attack over several of the excellent paper writers we also have on staff.

And on a final note, and I've said this before, I'd like to see states pass legislation that no hospital can receive funds from state unless hospitals employ ADNs. Roughly 55%-60% of new RNs are ADNs and the Magnet arrogance will screw (and already is) with too many people as 2020 approaches. You can bet your behind I've already discussed this with my local state Senator and House representative.

Thank you for this. I too have a BS in a health related field non the less and no one gives a gosh darn. Kinda drives me a little nuts but what can I do. I too got an ADN. I was living in a rural area and that is what they offered and I had already spent do much $ on my first degree. Now I am living in a city and can't find a job. Pretty sure if I had a BSN I would have better luck. I plan to go back and get my masters which miraculously with the RN and a health related BS I can go get a MSN?? Maybe I'm missing something but it seems that the whole thing should be reevaluated. Do not allow these programs of no one wants to hire us.

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Specializes in CCM, PHN.

You guys have given me a new perspective. I'm just a peon sitting on the hiring committee so I have almost zero power to change the long-standing rules of this organization, but I don't see why we wouldn't consider an ADN new grad with a BS/BA in another field. I think that would be perfectly acceptable in lieu of an actual BSN. As far as I'm concerned, a 4 year degree is a 4 year degree. But again, I don't make the rules or write the algorithm the HR online system uses to filter out applicants. I will sure as heck try to bring this up, though. Thanks for mentioning it!!!!!

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.

For what it's worth, I agree also. It should be bachelor's prepared, provided the BA/BS to RN program covers the expanded curriculum of traditional BSNs (research, community, management, etc).

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Specializes in critical care, ER,ICU, CVSURG, CCU.
In response to BostonFNP,

"I haven't been a bedside RN in three years. I am willing I bet I could more than keep up with you in the floor with your how many years experience?"

You may be able to run circles around me on the floor. I really don't care. My point was that requiring nurses who haven't done patient care in over 10 years to go through remediation to renew their their license is much less ludicrous that telling a nurse with 25 years experience and specialty certifications in areas such as ICU and Trauma that they must earn a BSN within 3 years or risk termination.

Actually I'm glad many of these academic elitists are sitting in university ivory towers and not treating patients. With the short-sightedness and inability to think outside the university box th

isit just late, or my eyes deceiving me? do i actually see diploma prepared nurses out preforming on first time pass om nclex exam, in three out of four time periods?

at I see coming from them, I wouldn't want them trying to take care of myself nor any of my friends or family members.

A top figure in my state's nurse's association told me that is nurse is not a professional unless they have a BSN. This person recently attended a summit with representatives from all the state's nursing associations who felt the same way and are pushing for BSN mandates. And they are all affiliated with four year colleges and universities.

How does it make all you nurses out there who have graduated from associate's and diploma programs feel that the people who are supposed to represent you don't even think of you as professionals. That's why I stopped paying dues to my state nurse's association. I felt they represent themselves and not all nurses.

And if BSN nurses are supposedly better prepared, it is certainly not reflected in the NCLEX pass rates below.

https://www.ncsbn.org/Table_of_Pass_Rates_2011.pdf

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