So here's the story. I am a male RN. Recently, I had a conflict while at work with a female CNA. For the sake of anonymity and simplicity, I will call her Jen. A relative of a patient of ours asked for his IV to be wrapped so that they can give him a shower (bless this family for being so involved in his care). I went off to find Jen in the break room and asked her if she was on break or on lunch. She said she was on lunch, so I replied "Ok it can wait then." I explained to the family that I couldn't wrap the IV at this particular time due to my having medications to pass to my other patients, but that Jen could do it when she came back from lunch. I even held the meds that I had in my hand up in the air for them to see. The family understood and said they can wait. I go off to pass my meds.
After I finished my last or second-to-last med pass, I was walking down the hall towards the nurses' station when I hear Jen's voice, screaming "Lapzs! Why didn't you wrap the IV?! The family's so pissed! God! You're so unprofessional!" I stood there dumbfounded. The only words I could get out were "I had meds to give." Before I could explain any more, she scoughed, turned around, and made way for the supply room. I called out her name, but she ignored me and went inside. I followed her in, and on my way I noticed a patient's family member looking stunned (possible witnessed what she was yelling about). The following conversation ensues (as I recall to the best of my memory):
Me: Jen. We need to talk.
Jen: God Lapzs! You could have wrapped the IV!
Me: First of all, if you have a problem with me, you take me somewhere private and talk. You don't yell at me in the hallway like that.
Jen: I wasn't yelling!
Me: Fine. But I told you. I had meds to pass.
Jen: That doesn't matter. You could have wrapped it before! God you are just so lazy!
She tries to walk around me to leave, but I stand in front of her to prevent her from doing so.
Jen: Don't you EVER do that to me!!!
Me: Fine. But we need to talk. We can't let this issue get out of this room. I already talked to the family. They were ok with it. Plus those meds were important.
Jen: You still could have wrapped it before.
Me: Do you want to pass my meds for me then? That is my job. That was my priority. If I could have wrapped it, I would have. And I already talked to them. This is your job. You're the CNA...
Jen: I'm NOT just a CNA! I'm more than that!
Me: Fine. So like I said, I had meds to give.
Jen: No! You could have wrapped it!
The back-and-forth goes on for a little while like that until she walks around me again and leaves. After that, the only time we talked again during the rest of the shift was when I asked her if she took a patient's blood pressure (she didn't document it) and she asked me about a patient's diet. I even talked to the patient's family afterwards and asked if there was a problem. They insisted there wasn't and asked me why I thought there was. I mentioned that I know Jen came to them a little while ago, and they said "Oh yeah she seemed pretty pissed."
We both talked to our charge RN individually. The next day (Jen wasn't working but I was), the same charge RN tells me that I need to apologize to Jen or do whatever I can to mend things because Jen told our director about this event and that she was going to file an incident report because she felt her safety was at risk. Charge RN tells me that our director told her to tell me to file a MIDAS (our internal reporting service) so that I can defend myself. Charge RN says that she already vouched for me. I filled out my MIDAS report at the end of my shift.
That's that. I am a 24 year old male RN and Jen is a 40-something year old CNA. I have been an RN on our med-surg/telemetry unit for two years. For pretty much all of that time, I was the only male worker, RN or CNA, on the floor on day shift. Jen and I have known each other that entire time. We were good friends and even took pictures together at work. Also, I'm confident most of my other female coworkers would vouch for me as well.
What do you all think? Was I in the wrong here? Was she in the wrong? Is my career and license in jeopardy? I know we both could have definitely handled things better, but I felt that her non-stop yelling, insulting, and unwillingness to slow down and listen and talk prevented us from squashing this issue.
I am guessing you have had some seriously bad experiences with family. While family can get exhausting at times, I can honestly say only about 15% of the families I have encountered have been pains. Most have been extremely helpful and kind and understanding. I am a very upfront honest nurse with them so it's not because I kiss their rear or anything. I keep them informed and educate and keep it real with them. Heck I have had many family members seek me out to thank me. I try to focus on those instead of the 15% that make me roll my eyes and wonder why I choose this profession.
Family has saved my rear plenty of times in their willingness to be hands on and proactive understanding how busy things were.
The OP may have been dealing with one of those families who would make the 15%.
If that was the case, the OP had a lose-lose situation.
I remember one of nursing professors making a comment on how a nurse should avoid stopping mid-way of a task to focus on another task, especially when it comes to med pass.
Wrapping the IV site may have taken minutes to do but, here is thing:
One minute you are wrapping the IV site, the next the family is asking you to transport the patient to the shower...
Then, the family is asking you to clean the patient...now, you are off to get washcloths, towels, soap, and what not...
Next, the family is asking you about the patient's plan of care...
Then, the family is complaining about their home life and what...
Now, they want you to get them something to drink...
Or, better yet, the family leaves, and now, the patient is crying for some reason...
Damn. Seriously. Condolences to those who work the day shift or on units that allow families to stay overnight :/
THIS.^^^
" oh, while you're here... etc.
Which will either involve being late with the med pass( and pissing off the pain patient) or pissing off the shower patient.
With the customer is always right first method, there will be no winners here. The excuse of I am only one person doesnt hold with the public.
Sorry OP.
Btw, since my unit is not allowed to keep any supplies(laundry, bandages, etc) on the floor ( they are kept locked up in a outside room ) It involves a walk to get the supplies, then find a scissors to cut up a specimen bag to fit around IV, then find the right tape, then of course find out they have no towels, so now you have to go back.
The CNA sounds like many of them. Too good to do some things. We shouldnt feel thatt we HAVE TO EXPLAIN OURSELVES why we asked them to do a task thet is their job, when we are doing a task that they arent required to do in a legal timely manner- ie: med pass.
Id have to say things probably wont get any better having to work with this " co-worker"
Good luck
Oh, and yes , though, I wouldnt have blocked the person in. you should have just taken it straight to management. I m sure your pain patient would have taken it straight to management when they were asked " so how has your care been here" and they would have blamed YOU for being late with their pain meds.
She tries to walk around me to leave, but I stand in front of her to prevent her from doing so.[/Quote]The second you did that, you crossed a serious line. I think you should be written up for it.
Let me elaborate from the perspective of a 50+ year-old man: What you did was an inappropriate way for *any* man to treat *any* woman. It was direct, physical intimidation - whether you perceive it that way or not - and classic "abuser" behavior from a physically more dominant person toward a less dominant one.
From a male perspective, I can tell you how I might have responded had you blocked my egress: I would have looked you square in the eye and said in a cold and quiet voice, "Get... out... of... my... way.......... NOW" while clearly communicating nonverbally my intent to back up my statement with the force sufficient to ensure your compliance.
Many women do not feel comfortable with that degree of direct confrontation, with the clearly expressed though unstated willingness to escalate if necessary. I do know some women who are, of course, and a few who would have left you crumpled on the floor for your trouble.
Jen's reaction to the initial incident was out-of-line and unprofessional but your response to it was the more egregious action, and one which could even get you fired depending on how Jen felt and what she related to management and HR.
I think unfortunately you escalated the situation when you tried to talk it out. If you weren't going to wrap the IV yourself, I would have asked her, or any other CNA, to wrap the IV. "Please wrap the IV for the patient in room 7 and assist him with a shower. Thank you." Their reaction can be whatever it will be. And then leave it at that. Maybe you didn't think you were cornering her, but it seems that way. Any coworker that steps in my path to block my exit is holding me hostage. I don't have to hash it out with you. If management wants us to do mediation, that's a different matter. I would perceive this as controlling as well. I had a coworker once who seriously raised my hackles with his controlling behavior, and I haven't forgotten it.
First off she was wrong to yell at you from down the hall. That's never ok. That being said, and I know everyone else has said it too, blocking her wasn't a good idea.
Unless those meds were going to a code or someone who is about to crash, you could've taken the time to wrap the IV. It's easy to get into the mindset that those meds have to be passed right away, I know when I was newer that was where my head was at. But taking that tiny amount of time can mean the world to the patient and family. Also I would never tell someone "you're the CNA". I know we all have our duties and responsibilities but I used to get told that when I was a CNA and first off, yeah they know that, but it can come across as arrogant and condescending. Not saying that's what your intention was, that's just how it can seem when you're on the receiving end. This is a good learning experience and you seem to be handling the feedback well. This won't end your career or future, not by a long shot, since we've all had our not so great moments. Keep us posted on what happens next!
Like many others, I see both sides were wrong. But as a nurse, OP is the superior - in both education and salary (note: I'm not saying he's the better person) - and should have approached the aide in a more professional manner. Blocking someone's way is definitely intimidating (physically) and if we push it farther, it can be considered sexual (emotionally) when you have a man and a woman in a confined space. That is a huge blunder on the OP's part. Not even going to touch the waving of meds in front of the pt's family members - sorry, that's just downright rude no matter how nicely you try to do it. They don't need any visuals to comprehend that. While the aide is obviously playing the victim card, this was just a huge lapse in judgment on the OP's part.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
The OP may have been dealing with one of those families who would make the 15%.
If that was the case, the OP had a lose-lose situation.
He said they were very nice and understanding, but I wasn't there. I was speaking directly to you though and the multiple repetitive comments you've made about families. It would appear you've had some repeated bad experiences with them. Which is what my comment said. It had nothing to do with the OP.
He said they were very nice and understanding, but I wasn't there. I was speaking directly to you though and the multiple repetitive comments you've made about families. It would appear you've had some repeated bad experiences with them. Which is what my comment said. It had nothing to do with the OP.
This thread is about the OP's situation. My point of mentioning the downside of families is the point out of the possibility that the OP may have been dealing with one of those familes. As another member pointed out, they may had that said they were fine with waiting but it may not have been the case.
(Though off topic) in regard to my own experiences - so what if I had bad experiences with families?
There are still families out there who make a nurse's job unreasonably stressful. You yourself went on with that "15%" comment. Hence, I made the comment:
"The OP may have been dealing with one of those families who would make the 15%.
If that was the case, the OP had a lose-lose situation."
After all, the focus of the thread should be on the OP's situation.
Though, now, I question your aim for even saying 'I am guessing you have had some seriously bad experiences with family." Now, (going off topic again), I could go on and point out how you indicated a history of filling incident reports against your colleagues, but, again, that would be going off topic...
Obviously, people are coming into this thread with their personal experiences to give their two-cents.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
This thread is about the OP's situation. My point of mentioning the downside of families is the point out of the possibility that the OP may have been dealing with one of those familes. As another member pointed out, they may had that said they were fine with waiting but it may not have been the case.
(Though off topic) in regard to my own experiences - so what if I had bad experiences with families?
There are families out there who make a nurse's job unreasonably stressful. You yourself went on with that "15%" comment. Hence I made the comment:
"The OP may have been dealing with one of those families who would make the 15%.
If that was the case, the OP had a lose-lose situation."
After all, the focus of the thread should be on the OP's situation.
Now, to go off topic again, I could go on and point how you indicated a history of filling incident reports against your colleagues, but, again, that would be going off topic...
Obviously, people are coming into this thread using their personal experiences to give their two-cents.
Yikes!!! You crack me up. Thanks for the laugh. Especially the passive-aggressive comments. Those are my favorites because it's like you try to come off being witty and clever and really it's sub-par.
I indicated I was told I HAD to write ONE incident report on a staff member that had also prevented me from leaving an area, and had been very unprofessional and aggressive in a curtained patient area where there was many patients and witnesses. Now before you retort "well that is still a history of writing reports" you seem to be really bad at word connotations; as evidenced earlier in this this thread.
So your use of "how you indicated you had a history of filling out incident reports against your colleagues" to try and give off the impression that I admitted to having a history of writing people up can be chalked up as a "nice try"
If you're going to try and come at me with condescending passive-aggressive remarks, please try to at least get it right.
Your constant repetitive posts about how much you feel sorry for people that have to deal with family could be considered off topic as well. Since the OP issue clearly had to do with the unprofessionalism of the CNA, not issues he had with the family. The family issues were scenarios the other posters mentioned. But threads like these veer all the time, that's part of what makes them fun!
I have to step away for a while so that should give you enough time to come back with something a little better. Or else our battle of wits will have to come to an end. Like my mamma used to always tell me, never have a battled of wits with an unarmed man.
Frankly, I wouldn't apologize. I'd stand my ground. This sounds like a classic case of a CNA trying to be a big bad wolf. She went to management to try to cover her butt. You cover yours and stick it out. She didn't feel threatened. If she did she wouldn't have started a screaming match with you.
So you're not aware that physically trapping someone in a room because they're not doing what you want could be considered criminal confinement?
You do not EVER physically bar someone from stepping away from you. EVER. If someone did that to me I would raise ****, IMMEDIATELY, to get witnesses and to get my freedom, and I would not be politely discussing it with the person who had just played barricade.
If OP's recounting is accurate, the CNA was extremely out of line, but Jen isn't here, he is. And that single confessed action is inexcusable. He lost his right to ride the high horse.
~Mi Vida Loca~RN, once again, you went off topic...and you continued to disregard the fact that the family is involved, when the situation started with a family request...and now, you are going into "English 101" territory...
Now, I really question your aim for replying to almost every one of my comments on this thread, even the ones that were not directed to you.
It is, as if, with each reply, you are not looking for common ground but looking for a way to extend an argument...
.thumb.jpg.5aa4d55557c0228e31b94de19666bbbb.jpg){kind=small}
DTWriter
322 Posts
The OP may have been dealing with one of those families who would make the 15%.
If that was the case, the OP had a lose-lose situation.