Accusation Against Male Nurse (Me)

[Lapzs]

So here's the story. I am a male RN. Recently, I had a conflict while at work with a female CNA. For the sake of anonymity and simplicity, I will call her Jen. A relative of a patient of ours asked for his IV to be wrapped so that they can give him a shower (bless this family for being so involved in his care). I went off to find Jen in the break room and asked her if she was on break or on lunch. She said she was on lunch, so I replied "Ok it can wait then." I explained to the family that I couldn't wrap the IV at this particular time due to my having medications to pass to my other patients, but that Jen could do it when she came back from lunch. I even held the meds that I had in my hand up in the air for them to see. The family understood and said they can wait. I go off to pass my meds.

After I finished my last or second-to-last med pass, I was walking down the hall towards the nurses' station when I hear Jen's voice, screaming "Lapzs! Why didn't you wrap the IV?! The family's so pissed! God! You're so unprofessional!" I stood there dumbfounded. The only words I could get out were "I had meds to give." Before I could explain any more, she scoughed, turned around, and made way for the supply room. I called out her name, but she ignored me and went inside. I followed her in, and on my way I noticed a patient's family member looking stunned (possible witnessed what she was yelling about). The following conversation ensues (as I recall to the best of my memory):

Me: Jen. We need to talk.

Jen: God Lapzs! You could have wrapped the IV!

Me: First of all, if you have a problem with me, you take me somewhere private and talk. You don't yell at me in the hallway like that.

Jen: I wasn't yelling!

Me: Fine. But I told you. I had meds to pass.

Jen: That doesn't matter. You could have wrapped it before! God you are just so lazy!

She tries to walk around me to leave, but I stand in front of her to prevent her from doing so.

Jen: Don't you EVER do that to me!!!

Me: Fine. But we need to talk. We can't let this issue get out of this room. I already talked to the family. They were ok with it. Plus those meds were important.

Jen: You still could have wrapped it before.

Me: Do you want to pass my meds for me then? That is my job. That was my priority. If I could have wrapped it, I would have. And I already talked to them. This is your job. You're the CNA...

Jen: I'm NOT just a CNA! I'm more than that!

Me: Fine. So like I said, I had meds to give.

Jen: No! You could have wrapped it!

The back-and-forth goes on for a little while like that until she walks around me again and leaves. After that, the only time we talked again during the rest of the shift was when I asked her if she took a patient's blood pressure (she didn't document it) and she asked me about a patient's diet. I even talked to the patient's family afterwards and asked if there was a problem. They insisted there wasn't and asked me why I thought there was. I mentioned that I know Jen came to them a little while ago, and they said "Oh yeah she seemed pretty pissed."

We both talked to our charge RN individually. The next day (Jen wasn't working but I was), the same charge RN tells me that I need to apologize to Jen or do whatever I can to mend things because Jen told our director about this event and that she was going to file an incident report because she felt her safety was at risk. Charge RN tells me that our director told her to tell me to file a MIDAS (our internal reporting service) so that I can defend myself. Charge RN says that she already vouched for me. I filled out my MIDAS report at the end of my shift.

That's that. I am a 24 year old male RN and Jen is a 40-something year old CNA. I have been an RN on our med-surg/telemetry unit for two years. For pretty much all of that time, I was the only male worker, RN or CNA, on the floor on day shift. Jen and I have known each other that entire time. We were good friends and even took pictures together at work. Also, I'm confident most of my other female coworkers would vouch for me as well.

What do you all think? Was I in the wrong here? Was she in the wrong? Is my career and license in jeopardy? I know we both could have definitely handled things better, but I felt that her non-stop yelling, insulting, and unwillingness to slow down and listen and talk prevented us from squashing this issue.

[DTWriter]

So you're not aware that physically trapping someone in a room because they're not doing what you want could be considered criminal confinement?

You do not EVER physically bar someone from stepping away from you. EVER. If someone did that to me I would raise ****, IMMEDIATELY, to get witnesses and to get my freedom, and I would not be politely discussing it with the person who had just played barricade.

If OP's recounting is accurate, the CNA was extremely out of line, but Jen isn't here, he is. And that single confessed action is inexcusable. He lost his right to ride the high horse.

I am curious as to what the OP should do from here on out.

Based on the OP's post, "Jen" would be in the right to file an incident report, but should the OP even approach Jen, even if he wants to apology, and even if a mediator is present?

[NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN]

First, apologize for blocking her exit from the supply room. That is certainly not professional in the least and if a simple apology can avoid further trouble from management it's not only the right thing to do because you were in the wrong, it's the right thing to do for your job. Second, I'd formally write up that CNA for insubordination. Yelling at your supervising nurse and calling that nurse lazy anywhere is not OK, doing so in a hallway where everybody can overhear it is beyond not OK. The difference in your ages and you sex has nothing to do with it.

OP did not pursue reasonable swift action with management regarding Jen's initial reaction. Jen's behavior was terrible but if he pursues disciplinary action because she filed an incident report about his physically blocking her somewhere - while she was already upset - to force a conversation, that smells like retaliation.

[NotAllWhoWandeRN, ASN, RN]

I am curious as to what the OP should do from here on out.

Based on the OP's post, "Jen" would be in the right to file an incident report, but should the OP even approach Jen, even if he wants to apology, and even if a mediator is present?

I felt there were two separate motivations to those telling OP not to apologize. One was to avoid further complicating the situation and the other was that he had the moral high ground because she behaved unprofessionally first.

If someone says they felt threatened by your actions then you definitely should not seek out any conversation with them without a reliable witness. As for him morally owing her an apology, I'd say absolutely. She owes him one too, but neither of them is truly regretful if they refuse to own their bad actions unless the other does, too. If they have a meeting with all parties and a mediator present I think is is reasonable to expect, at the least, an apology that she felt unsafe. You can apologize for how your actions negatively impacted someone, even if the action itself was neutral (though in this case it was not).

[suzystrempke]

^This.

I remember one of my nursing professors making a comment on how a nurse should avoid stopping mid-way of a task to focus on another task, especially when it comes to med pass.

Wrapping the IV site may have taken minutes to do but, here is thing:

One minute you are wrapping the IV site, the next the family is asking you to transport the patient to the shower...

Then, the family is asking you to clean the patient...now, you are off to get washcloths, towels, soap, and what not...

Next, the family is asking you about the patient's plan of care...

Then, the family is complaining about their home life and what...

Now, they want you to get them something to drink...

Or, better yet, the family leaves, and now, the patient is crying for some reason...

Damn. Seriously. Condolences to those who work the day shift or on units that allow families to stay overnight :/

I agree with you on this. I also think that either way the OP could have just told the family that they would have to wait a a bit and then either when he finished his med pass go take care of it or if he saw the CNA before that, ask her if he was still busy. I do think people should be left alone on their breaks since they are hard to get in the hospital. I also think that stopping in the middle of med pass is asking for trouble. There is a reason we do 3 checks and 5-8 rights (depending on where you are from) - it's because you can kill somebody will medication. It REQUIRES your full attention!

Not to mention, we are taught to prioritize in nursing school and medications do have a higher priority than wrapping an IV. That can wait.

[chacha82, ADN, BSN]

I am curious as to what the OP should do from here on out.

Based on the OP's post, "Jen" would be in the right to file an incident report, but should the OP even approach Jen, even if he wants to apology, and even if a mediator is present?

I think this has been explosive enough and I would personally wait for management/HR to do their thing. Throughout the process, I would recommend being polite to Jen and apologizing. But any conversations should take place in front of a third party. Jen needs to check her attitude as well. But the OP should not approach Jen privately or try to talk anything else out, because I don't think she will be receptive.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

~Mi Vida Loca~RN, once again, you went off topic...and you continued to disregard the fact that the family is involved, when the situation started with a family request...and now, you are going into "English 101" territory...

Now, I really question your aim for replying to almost every one of my comments on this thread, even the ones that were not directed to you.

It is, as if, with each reply, you are not looking for common ground but looking for a way to extend an argument...

Not interested.

You continue to go off topic when you bring up unhappy/unruly families/patients. Clearly that wasn't what the OP delt with.

[DTWriter]

You continue to go off topic when you bring up unhappy/unruly families/patients. Clearly that wasn't what the OP delt with.

The OP's situation started with a family request.

We do not know how cooperative the family was. The possibility is there that the family may been unreasonable, right? Plus, there was the risk of the family dragging things out with the OP when the OP was in the middle of med pass. And, [insert high power's name here] forbid, you ask the family to wait. Some do take it well...and others, oh, boy...

Extra: As another member pointed out, I would not be surprised if the family took out their frustration on Jen for making them wait, and then Jen vented her frustration on the OP, and so forth.

[Lapzs]

WOAH! I'm glad to see that a lot of people are willing to provide their input. I appreciate what everyone has said. No need to fight with one another. Here's a summary of my thoughts so far:

1. Obviously, I was wrong to block her in. Not good judgment on my part. The event of Jen and I talking again is inevitable because as our schedules stand, we work 2 of 3 shifts together every week. When the apologies come, I plan to bring in my charge RN or other third witness. I will apologize only for blocking her in and making her feel threatened.

2. I don't feel that my choice to ask Jen whether she was on break, lunch, or on a short 1-2 minutes of downtime was wrong. As I said, she was on her lunch, so I told her "it can wait." However, if she said she wasn't on any of her entitled breaks or lunch, I would have asked her to wrap the IV. My medications were my priority and they came first. And yes, I could have wrapped the IV once I finished, but Jen began yelling and insulting me as I finished my last or second-to-last med pass, so I never got to that point.

3. This whole thing blew way out of proportion. Would I have done things differently? Yes, but only the blocking in part. I will never do that again. If a similar situation happens in the future, I will receive whatever spews and insults come my way, then report everything to my charge RN.

[Lapzs]

Is this how you talk in real life? I just had the most hilarious visual of you walking into the break room saying "pardon me ladies, might you have some of those scented sprays that help you feel refreshed" in a British Accent, and imagined the peeps from the Grey Poupon commercials. (older nurses will know what I am talking about.

Well, it's the truth. Oftentimes, they offer me some but I learned quickly that their sprays only make my own BO worse.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

The OP's situation started with a family request.

We do not know how cooperative the family was. The possibility is there that the family may been unreasonable, right? Plus, there was the risk of the family dragging things out with the OP when the OP was in the middle of med pass. And, [insert high power's name here] forbid, you ask the family to wait. Some do take it well...and others, oh, boy...

Extra: As another member pointed out, I would not be surprised if the family took out their frustration on Jen for making them wait, and then Jen vented her frustration on the OP, and so forth.

But the OP has clearly stated that the family & patient were never rude to *him*. The only person he mentions that was rude to him was Jen. So you are indeed going off topic.

[Floor_Nurse]

It sounds like, perhaps, maybe the CNA said the wrong thing to the family to make it seem as if you were neglectful. Anyway, it appears that the shower wasn't started with an uncovered IV site (good news for you). We nurses are constantly covering our behinds against incidents. I strongly encourage you to get nurses insurance if you don't already have it. It won't help you for this incident, but it will for all future ones. It only costs about $120 for an entire year.

A very strong method of defending yourself in labor law/legal matters is to actually have a lawyer....and nurse's insurance will reimburse you if you hire one.

[~Mi Vida Loca~RN, ASN, RN]

But the OP has clearly stated that the family & patient were never rude to *him*. The only person he mentions that was rude to him was Jen. So you are indeed going off topic.

It's funny how that keeps getting danced around isn't it. Seems to be a trend.

From the OP post regarding his actual encounters with the family.

A relative of a patient of ours asked for his IV to be wrapped so that they can give him a shower (bless this family for being so involved in his care). I went off to find Jen in the break room and asked her if she was on break or on lunch. She said she was on lunch, so I replied "Ok it can wait then." I explained to the family that I couldn't wrap the IV at this particular time due to my having medications to pass to my other patients, but that Jen could do it when she came back from lunch. I even held the meds that I had in my hand up in the air for them to see. The family understood and said they can wait. I go off to pass my meds.

The back-and-forth goes on for a little while like that until she walks around me again and leaves. After that, the only time we talked again during the rest of the shift was when I asked her if she took a patient's blood pressure (she didn't document it) and she asked me about a patient's diet. I even talked to the patient's family afterwards and asked if there was a problem. They insisted there wasn't and asked me why I thought there was. I mentioned that I know Jen came to them a little while ago, and they said "Oh yeah she seemed pretty pissed."