So here's the story. I am a male RN. Recently, I had a conflict while at work with a female CNA. For the sake of anonymity and simplicity, I will call her Jen. A relative of a patient of ours asked for his IV to be wrapped so that they can give him a shower (bless this family for being so involved in his care). I went off to find Jen in the break room and asked her if she was on break or on lunch. She said she was on lunch, so I replied "Ok it can wait then." I explained to the family that I couldn't wrap the IV at this particular time due to my having medications to pass to my other patients, but that Jen could do it when she came back from lunch. I even held the meds that I had in my hand up in the air for them to see. The family understood and said they can wait. I go off to pass my meds.
After I finished my last or second-to-last med pass, I was walking down the hall towards the nurses' station when I hear Jen's voice, screaming "Lapzs! Why didn't you wrap the IV?! The family's so pissed! God! You're so unprofessional!" I stood there dumbfounded. The only words I could get out were "I had meds to give." Before I could explain any more, she scoughed, turned around, and made way for the supply room. I called out her name, but she ignored me and went inside. I followed her in, and on my way I noticed a patient's family member looking stunned (possible witnessed what she was yelling about). The following conversation ensues (as I recall to the best of my memory):
Me: Jen. We need to talk.
Jen: God Lapzs! You could have wrapped the IV!
Me: First of all, if you have a problem with me, you take me somewhere private and talk. You don't yell at me in the hallway like that.
Jen: I wasn't yelling!
Me: Fine. But I told you. I had meds to pass.
Jen: That doesn't matter. You could have wrapped it before! God you are just so lazy!
She tries to walk around me to leave, but I stand in front of her to prevent her from doing so.
Jen: Don't you EVER do that to me!!!
Me: Fine. But we need to talk. We can't let this issue get out of this room. I already talked to the family. They were ok with it. Plus those meds were important.
Jen: You still could have wrapped it before.
Me: Do you want to pass my meds for me then? That is my job. That was my priority. If I could have wrapped it, I would have. And I already talked to them. This is your job. You're the CNA...
Jen: I'm NOT just a CNA! I'm more than that!
Me: Fine. So like I said, I had meds to give.
Jen: No! You could have wrapped it!
The back-and-forth goes on for a little while like that until she walks around me again and leaves. After that, the only time we talked again during the rest of the shift was when I asked her if she took a patient's blood pressure (she didn't document it) and she asked me about a patient's diet. I even talked to the patient's family afterwards and asked if there was a problem. They insisted there wasn't and asked me why I thought there was. I mentioned that I know Jen came to them a little while ago, and they said "Oh yeah she seemed pretty pissed."
We both talked to our charge RN individually. The next day (Jen wasn't working but I was), the same charge RN tells me that I need to apologize to Jen or do whatever I can to mend things because Jen told our director about this event and that she was going to file an incident report because she felt her safety was at risk. Charge RN tells me that our director told her to tell me to file a MIDAS (our internal reporting service) so that I can defend myself. Charge RN says that she already vouched for me. I filled out my MIDAS report at the end of my shift.
That's that. I am a 24 year old male RN and Jen is a 40-something year old CNA. I have been an RN on our med-surg/telemetry unit for two years. For pretty much all of that time, I was the only male worker, RN or CNA, on the floor on day shift. Jen and I have known each other that entire time. We were good friends and even took pictures together at work. Also, I'm confident most of my other female coworkers would vouch for me as well.
What do you all think? Was I in the wrong here? Was she in the wrong? Is my career and license in jeopardy? I know we both could have definitely handled things better, but I felt that her non-stop yelling, insulting, and unwillingness to slow down and listen and talk prevented us from squashing this issue.
Specializes in Med/Surge, Psych, LTC, Home Health.
I'm a woman who is nearly 6 feet tall and heavyset. When I'm heated I need to watch my posture and proximity to people to not appear physically threatening.
Me too! I AM six feet tall, and quite heavyset. I'm really introverted though,
so in that regard I don't seem to intimidate people much.
Threads like this make me actually glad that our hospital does not use CNA's.
We are a very small hospital though, so we can get away with that. :)
I've already decided though, that if we ever do start using CNA's, that I'm
going to continue to do as much of the patient care myself, as I can.
Easier that way.
I used to work with an RN who did just that. It is possible, I think.
This thread also makes me think of a time when I too, was called
out by a CNA for something that I could have done myself. Not
my proudest moment. But, I was a newer nurse and not good
Specializes in Med/Surge, Psych, LTC, Home Health.
So you can't multitask now? In all of the "10 seconds" (which I'm sure took longer) you couldn't wrap it yourself? I'm not arguing which one is more important. You were already there, why track down the tech? Seems counterintuitive to me. It's not like you weren't even close to the room. I just don't understand why you couldn't take the 1-2 minutes to cover the IV site instead of getting in this hot mess.
I see you've only been a nurse going on two years, I've been a nurse for 7. Let me give you some advice, learn when to pick your battles & how to multitask. Unless it was a code those pills weren't emergent & you could've covered the IV site while passing meds.
My apologies, I know I'm behind in this thread.
I have to say that I agree, the OP should have just gone ahead and wrapped
the IV. And, I'm not sure that he has fully acknowledged this. Maybe he has.
But, I don't think he knew that the CNA was going to completely blow a
gasket over, golly!!, being asked to wrap an IV. If he would have known
that the CNA was THAT DANG BUSY, and that she would have a fit over
it, I'm sure he would have never asked her. Yes he did ask her during her
lunch break, but he did acknowledge that she was on her lunch break
and could do this task when she finished.
He really was not in the wrong for asking the CNA if she would do this
task. He was only in the wrong for blocking her way from the room.
Unfortunately you were very disrespectful. 1. For disturbing her lunch break. 2. For treating her like your need to talk was more important than her need to leave. 3. Like handling a task that is not only in your scope but is ultimately your responsibility was beneath you. You made the patient and his family wait on something that would have only taken a few seconds.
She responded the way she did because she was hurt that a work friend could treat her this way. Further, she is more than a CNA, she is a person first. You treated her like a personal servant.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Unfortunately you were very disrespectful. 1. For disturbing her lunch break. 2. For treating her like your need to talk was more important than her need to leave. 3. Like handling a task that is not only in your scope but is ultimately your responsibility was beneath you. You made the patient and his family wait on something that would have only taken a few seconds.
She responded the way she did because she was hurt that a work friend could treat her this way. Further, she is more than a CNA, she is a person first. You treated her like a personal servant.
To kwirky korky. Your reply is so unfortunate. This is not the military. No one learned how to be an RN without first learning to be a CNA. The profession suffers from people with your attitude. I get paid to promote health by preventing illness, disease and death. While caring out my job may have to serve but it's not my primary focus or responsibility.
Servants are people who responds to the leasure of others without the expectation of thought. If you want to be a servant go right ahead, but it's not why I went to school.
I have a pretty quick trigger for pushing conflicts like this to management. That's what they get paid for. Many CNAs simply have no respect for RNs and will act as insubordinate as they can.
I don't waste my time with them. If management is fine with CNAs behaving as you describe, I'd find another job.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
I have a pretty quick trigger for pushing conflicts like this to management. That's what they get paid for. Many CNAs simply have no respect for RNs and will act as insubordinate as they can.
I don't waste my time with them. If management is fine with CNAs behaving as you describe, I'd find another job.
This whole thing blew way out of proportion. Would I have done things differently? Yes, but only the blocking in part. I will never do that again. If a similar situation happens in the future, I will receive whatever spews and insults come my way, then report everything to my charge RN.
Welcome to the online nursing forum drama club lol
Specializes in Mental Health, Gerontology, Palliative.
What I would have done was said to the family "Hey, Mrs Black and family, I need to give these medications straight away, I'll keep and eye out for the tech to come back and sort the IV. I'll pop back after i've given these meds and if its not done, I'll do it myself in the next 10-15 minutes (or what ever time it would take)". Then go about giving the medication and if you see Julie in passing ask her to do it, if you dont go back and check after you've given the meds.
People need to have their meal break and IMO it should be uninterrupted except for issues of not breathing or massive haemorrhage. Going to the CNA in the break room to ask her to wrap the IV wasnt cool IMO
And not to mention blocking her into the room was way out of line
Unfortunately you were very disrespectful. 1. For disturbing her lunch break. 2. For treating her like your need to talk was more important than her need to leave. 3. Like handling a task that is not only in your scope but is ultimately your responsibility was beneath you. You made the patient and his family wait on something that would have only taken a few seconds.
She responded the way she did because she was hurt that a work friend could treat her this way. Further, she is more than a CNA, she is a person first. You treated her like a personal servant.
I disagree. Though, I can see how I may have come off as such.
1. I already clarified this. I think 5 times now. I won't explain any more.
2. Stopping her from leaving was definitely a mistake. I already acknowledged that.
3. It is within my scope of practice but it is NOT ultimately my responsibility. What is my ultimate responsibility is to ensure the well being of my patients. Making sure less important tasks get done is secondary to that. In this case, as I've said many times, my meds were my priority. I delegated this task appropriately. I've also explained this part of the story numerous times, including my interactions with the family before and after the conflict. I stand by that judgment call.
If she was hurt, I didn't mean it. However, we were at work. And at work, I am the nurse and she is the nursing assistant. I did not treat her like a servant, even if she felt like it. That certainly wasn't my intention. I delegated a task well within her scope of practice. I didn't force her off of her lunch. I told her the task could wait. There is no way I can force her to end lunch early. If she gets hurt and feels like a servant every time one of her work friends (the RNs) delegates a task to her, then she must get hurt quite often.
What I would have done was said to the family "Hey, Mrs Black and family, I need to give these medications straight away, I'll keep and eye out for the tech to come back and sort the IV. I'll pop back after i've given these meds and if its not done, I'll do it myself in the next 10-15 minutes (or what ever time it would take)". Then go about giving the medication and if you see Julie in passing ask her to do it, if you dont go back and check after you've given the meds.
People need to have their meal break and IMO it should be uninterrupted except for issues of not breathing or massive haemorrhage. Going to the CNA in the break room to ask her to wrap the IV wasnt cool IMO
And not to mention blocking her into the room was way out of line
I already addressed your concerns in this thread. Many times.
I think you have an incorrect perception of what happened. I didn't tell her to stop her lunch. I told her the task can wait until afterwards. And I did talk to the family. What you would have done is similar to what I told them. If you want any further clarification, I suggest you re-read my original post and any subsequent ones.
I work on a high acuity BMT unit. All the patients are required daily showers and CHG baths. They all have central lines. We, the nurses, do all the IV wraps. I have to wait a few minutes to give meds often...but that is what it comes down to in non-emergency, but still urgent meds, a few minutes delay and saving me from situations like yours! As it always happens, patient is ready to shower at the most inconvenient times....but I always pause a quick minute, wrap that IV, and be done with it. I have been a nurse 20 years...I learned long ago that is faster and more efficient to bang out the little things... Me? I would have wrapped the IV in the time it took you to hunt the CNA down on her break. I often empty urinals, commodes, emesis basins, etc...teamwork, it is all about teamwork!
NurseCard, ADN
2,850 Posts
Me too! I AM six feet tall, and quite heavyset. I'm really introverted though,
so in that regard I don't seem to intimidate people much.
Threads like this make me actually glad that our hospital does not use CNA's.
We are a very small hospital though, so we can get away with that. :)
I've already decided though, that if we ever do start using CNA's, that I'm
going to continue to do as much of the patient care myself, as I can.
Easier that way.
I used to work with an RN who did just that. It is possible, I think.
This thread also makes me think of a time when I too, was called
out by a CNA for something that I could have done myself. Not
my proudest moment. But, I was a newer nurse and not good
with time management...