So here's the story. I am a male RN. Recently, I had a conflict while at work with a female CNA. For the sake of anonymity and simplicity, I will call her Jen. A relative of a patient of ours asked for his IV to be wrapped so that they can give him a shower (bless this family for being so involved in his care). I went off to find Jen in the break room and asked her if she was on break or on lunch. She said she was on lunch, so I replied "Ok it can wait then." I explained to the family that I couldn't wrap the IV at this particular time due to my having medications to pass to my other patients, but that Jen could do it when she came back from lunch. I even held the meds that I had in my hand up in the air for them to see. The family understood and said they can wait. I go off to pass my meds.
After I finished my last or second-to-last med pass, I was walking down the hall towards the nurses' station when I hear Jen's voice, screaming "Lapzs! Why didn't you wrap the IV?! The family's so pissed! God! You're so unprofessional!" I stood there dumbfounded. The only words I could get out were "I had meds to give." Before I could explain any more, she scoughed, turned around, and made way for the supply room. I called out her name, but she ignored me and went inside. I followed her in, and on my way I noticed a patient's family member looking stunned (possible witnessed what she was yelling about). The following conversation ensues (as I recall to the best of my memory):
Me: Jen. We need to talk.
Jen: God Lapzs! You could have wrapped the IV!
Me: First of all, if you have a problem with me, you take me somewhere private and talk. You don't yell at me in the hallway like that.
Jen: I wasn't yelling!
Me: Fine. But I told you. I had meds to pass.
Jen: That doesn't matter. You could have wrapped it before! God you are just so lazy!
She tries to walk around me to leave, but I stand in front of her to prevent her from doing so.
Jen: Don't you EVER do that to me!!!
Me: Fine. But we need to talk. We can't let this issue get out of this room. I already talked to the family. They were ok with it. Plus those meds were important.
Jen: You still could have wrapped it before.
Me: Do you want to pass my meds for me then? That is my job. That was my priority. If I could have wrapped it, I would have. And I already talked to them. This is your job. You're the CNA...
Jen: I'm NOT just a CNA! I'm more than that!
Me: Fine. So like I said, I had meds to give.
Jen: No! You could have wrapped it!
The back-and-forth goes on for a little while like that until she walks around me again and leaves. After that, the only time we talked again during the rest of the shift was when I asked her if she took a patient's blood pressure (she didn't document it) and she asked me about a patient's diet. I even talked to the patient's family afterwards and asked if there was a problem. They insisted there wasn't and asked me why I thought there was. I mentioned that I know Jen came to them a little while ago, and they said "Oh yeah she seemed pretty pissed."
We both talked to our charge RN individually. The next day (Jen wasn't working but I was), the same charge RN tells me that I need to apologize to Jen or do whatever I can to mend things because Jen told our director about this event and that she was going to file an incident report because she felt her safety was at risk. Charge RN tells me that our director told her to tell me to file a MIDAS (our internal reporting service) so that I can defend myself. Charge RN says that she already vouched for me. I filled out my MIDAS report at the end of my shift.
That's that. I am a 24 year old male RN and Jen is a 40-something year old CNA. I have been an RN on our med-surg/telemetry unit for two years. For pretty much all of that time, I was the only male worker, RN or CNA, on the floor on day shift. Jen and I have known each other that entire time. We were good friends and even took pictures together at work. Also, I'm confident most of my other female coworkers would vouch for me as well.
What do you all think? Was I in the wrong here? Was she in the wrong? Is my career and license in jeopardy? I know we both could have definitely handled things better, but I felt that her non-stop yelling, insulting, and unwillingness to slow down and listen and talk prevented us from squashing this issue.
Holding up the meds and telling the family "I have meds to pass" may have been your attempt to explain why you are busy. In the future, I wouldn't do this. Unless it's Adenosine or Epi you have to push, I would just remain with the patient and ask for someone to bring in tape. Wrap the IV, you can keep your meds in your sight as you do so. Family requests are a huge part of inpatient nursing now. If someone's not coding, I just try to do them and move on.
The CNA should not have yelled at you, that's a separate issue, she was unprofessional for doing so.
As you've read already, blocking her exit takes it to another level. That's intimidation and it's the biggest HR issue here.
an IV can be wrapped in what, 20 seconds. I would have just wrapped it, or at least come back right after administering the meds you had in hand. You spent MUCH more time on seeking Jen out--and your little exchange--than wrapping it.
And the preventing her from leaving the supply room?? Yeah, not acceptable. You owe her an apology, and be thankful she's not the vindictive type!
Exactly! I just don't understand why the OP spent so much time & energy hunting down the tech when all he had to do was wrap the IV site & go on with his med pass. I understand he currently had meds in his possession but he could've either locked them up or given them to the patient & then gone back to the patient that needed the IV site to be covered.
Not all techs are helpful & there are some hospitals that don't even employ techs. If it were me & the tech wasn't readily available, I would've just gone in & covered the IV site. It sure would've taken less time & energy than hunting down the tech & getting into this hot mess.
It would have taken longer because your suggestion from earlier was put down what he had in his hands and lock the meds. go back in the room, wrap the IV and then go back for the meds? .. he clearly stated it took him 10 secs to ask if and when she would become available. and how was he supposed to know that she would blow things out of proportion, yelling in the hallway acting furious (that even the family acknowledged she seemed pissed) another sign of her unprofessional if the family even noticed she was upset. How is it that everyone is saying how "he should have just done it " but hardly anyone is commenting about how rude she was for yelling across the hallway. She is 40 years old, she should be old enough to have handled the situation better. I can agree with a previous comment from earlier when they mentioned it sounds like she has resentment on her JUST being a CNA.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I thought I explained this part already. Before all of this happened, I was having my lunch. Towards the end of my lunch, she came in. I didn't ask whether she was on break (15 mins) or lunch (30 mins), so I didn't know if she was on either. Maybe she just went in to sit for a minute and get something from her locker (I've seen a lot of the women on my floor pull out some scented sprays to feel refreshed and not stink mid-shift). I went in there because if she wasn't on either her lunch or break, I would have asked her to wrap the IV.
Is this how you talk in real life? I just had the most hilarious visual of you walking into the break room saying "pardon me ladies, might you have some of those scented sprays that help you feel refreshed" in a British Accent, and imagined the peeps from the Grey Poupon commercials. (older nurses will know what I am talking about.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I never made the latter statement. You twisted my words.
Verbatim copy and paste section of the conversation from my original post:"Me: Fine. But we need to talk. We can't let this issue get out of this room."
She tries to walk around me to leave, but I stand in front of her to prevent her from doing so.
Jen: Don't you EVER do that to me!!!
Me: Fine. But we need to talk. We can't let this issue get out of this room.
Picturing this situation, we are in a clearly hostile situation, I try to leave and you physically get in my way to prevent me from doing so and when I tell you to never do that again you say FINE, BUT we can't let this issue leave this room. What are you meaning by that??? Because to me that is saying "fine" but I am still going to keep standing here in front of you and you're still not leaving until we settle this.
Had you moved out of her way and not blocked the door and said that last line, then I might perceive it different. But that's not what you did because you state that finally when she left she walked around you again.
One of the most important reasons I left acute care was lack of accountability. CNAs were always given the same tagline regarding patient care "it is all of our responsibility". After being written up for the lack of CNA action, I said see ya'. You don't want to hear this, but I am going to come from the angle that this whole thing is on you. Hospitals are compensated 40% for satisfaction scores. These scores are very seldom indicative of care given, but service provided. You were asked for a service. The family probably was pissed, they didn't want you to know, this is common. That family really doesn't care if someone other than their mother needs pills, even if they are stat cardiac meds, they saw you and they wanted help then. The federal government has made acute care a service industry and you have to make that commitment or choose another path.
an IV can be wrapped in what, 20 seconds. I would have just wrapped it, or at least come back right after administering the meds you had in hand. You spent MUCH more time on seeking Jen out--and your little exchange--than wrapping it.
And the preventing her from leaving the supply room?? Yeah, not acceptable. You owe her an apology, and be thankful she's not the vindictive type!
Exactly! I just don't understand why the OP spent so much time & energy hunting down the tech when all he had to do was wrap the IV site & go on with his med pass. I understand he currently had meds in his possession but he could've either locked them up or given them to the patient & then gone back to the patient that needed the IV site to be covered.
Not all techs are helpful & there are some hospitals that don't even employ techs. If it were me & the tech wasn't readily available, I would've just gone in & covered the IV site. It sure would've taken less time & energy than hunting down the tech & getting into this hot mess.
It would have taken longer because your suggestion from earlier was put down what he had in his hands and lock the meds. go back in the room, wrap the IV and then go back for the meds? .. he clearly stated it took him 10 secs to ask if and when she would become available. and how was he supposed to know that she would blow things out of proportion, yelling in the hallway acting furious (that even the family acknowledged she seemed pissed) another sign of her unprofessional if the family even noticed she was upset. How is it that everyone is saying how "he should have just done it " but hardly anyone is commenting about how rude she was for yelling across the hallway. She is 40 years old, she should be old enough to have handled the situation better. I can agree with a previous comment from earlier when they mentioned it sounds like she has resentment on her JUST being a CNA.
He is in his 20s, he should know better & handled the situation better as well. I don't know what age has to do with. They were both wrong. Also, I doubt it only took 10 seconds to go to the break room & speak to Jen.
I think it is good that you have a sense of role boundaries. It is impossible to pass out medications if you get interrupted to "quickly" do this and that. Yes, wrapping the iv might have been a quick task BUT you had medications already pulled it sounds and in your hand. Naturally, this is not the time to focus on something else. Medication administration requires attention to detail.
^This.
I remember one of my nursing professors making a comment on how a nurse should avoid stopping mid-way of a task to focus on another task, especially when it comes to med pass.
Wrapping the IV site may have taken minutes to do but, here is thing:
One minute you are wrapping the IV site, the next the family is asking you to transport the patient to the shower...
Then, the family is asking you to clean the patient...now, you are off to get washcloths, towels, soap, and what not...
Next, the family is asking you about the patient's plan of care...
Then, the family is complaining about their home life and what...
Now, they want you to get them something to drink...
Or, better yet, the family leaves, and now, the patient is crying for some reason...
Damn. Seriously. Condolences to those who work the day shift or on units that allow families to stay overnight :/
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
OP, you are responsible for the tech. Not in the they are working under your license responsibility. But that you are their superior & if they do something wrong you can possibly get in trouble for it.
Like some posters have mentioned the family could've stated to you that they understood, said they were fine with waiting & maybe they were but not for very long or maybe they really weren't ok at all. So then when Jen went into the patient's room to wrap the IV she got the short end of the stick & got yelled at by the family for not wrapping the IV sooner which might be why she yelled at you (still not appropriate).
Maybe the family said something along the lines of the nurse was standing right outside the door or he was just right here but didn't wrap the IV & he said he would be right back.
Hospitals are a business & consumer driven. It's all about pleasing the customer. It sounds like the family & maybe even the patient wasn't happy & Jen got the short end of the stick.
I have to agree with the poster(s) who said not to wave the meds around. That's insulting to the family members/patient. They know you're doing a med pass, you don't have to show them the meds. Also don't interrupt someone during their break unless it's an emergency. It's the only down time you get & you know you cherish it. The last thing I want is to be bothered (if it can be helped) about work. I just want to decompress for 15-30 minutes before getting back on the floor.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
^This.
I remember one of nursing professors making a comment on how a nurse should avoid stopping mid-way of a task to focus on another task, especially when it comes to med pass.
Wrapping the IV site may have taken minutes to do but, here is thing:
One minute you are wrapping the IV site, the next the family is asking you to transport the patient to the shower...
Then, the family is asking you to clean the patient...now, you are off to get washcloths, towels, soap, and what not...
Next, the family is asking you about the patient's plan of care...
Then, the family is complaining about their home life and what...
Now, they want you to get them something to drink...
Or, better yet, the family leaves, and now, the patient is crying for some reason...
Damn. Seriously. Condolences to those who work the day shift or on units that allow families to stay overnight :/
I am guessing you have had some seriously bad experiences with family. While family can get exhausting at times, I can honestly say only about 15% of the families I have encountered have been pains. Most have been extremely helpful and kind and understanding. I am a very upfront honest nurse with them so it's not because I kiss their rear or anything. I keep them informed and educate and keep it real with them. Heck I have had many family members seek me out to thank me. I try to focus on those instead of the 15% that make me roll my eyes and wonder why I choose this profession.
Family has saved my rear plenty of times in their willingness to be hands on and proactive understanding how busy things were.
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chacha82, ADN, BSN
626 Posts
Late to this post, I will just say....
Holding up the meds and telling the family "I have meds to pass" may have been your attempt to explain why you are busy. In the future, I wouldn't do this. Unless it's Adenosine or Epi you have to push, I would just remain with the patient and ask for someone to bring in tape. Wrap the IV, you can keep your meds in your sight as you do so. Family requests are a huge part of inpatient nursing now. If someone's not coding, I just try to do them and move on.
The CNA should not have yelled at you, that's a separate issue, she was unprofessional for doing so.
As you've read already, blocking her exit takes it to another level. That's intimidation and it's the biggest HR issue here.