So here's the story. I am a male RN. Recently, I had a conflict while at work with a female CNA. For the sake of anonymity and simplicity, I will call her Jen. A relative of a patient of ours asked for his IV to be wrapped so that they can give him a shower (bless this family for being so involved in his care). I went off to find Jen in the break room and asked her if she was on break or on lunch. She said she was on lunch, so I replied "Ok it can wait then." I explained to the family that I couldn't wrap the IV at this particular time due to my having medications to pass to my other patients, but that Jen could do it when she came back from lunch. I even held the meds that I had in my hand up in the air for them to see. The family understood and said they can wait. I go off to pass my meds.
After I finished my last or second-to-last med pass, I was walking down the hall towards the nurses' station when I hear Jen's voice, screaming "Lapzs! Why didn't you wrap the IV?! The family's so pissed! God! You're so unprofessional!" I stood there dumbfounded. The only words I could get out were "I had meds to give." Before I could explain any more, she scoughed, turned around, and made way for the supply room. I called out her name, but she ignored me and went inside. I followed her in, and on my way I noticed a patient's family member looking stunned (possible witnessed what she was yelling about). The following conversation ensues (as I recall to the best of my memory):
Me: Jen. We need to talk.
Jen: God Lapzs! You could have wrapped the IV!
Me: First of all, if you have a problem with me, you take me somewhere private and talk. You don't yell at me in the hallway like that.
Jen: I wasn't yelling!
Me: Fine. But I told you. I had meds to pass.
Jen: That doesn't matter. You could have wrapped it before! God you are just so lazy!
She tries to walk around me to leave, but I stand in front of her to prevent her from doing so.
Jen: Don't you EVER do that to me!!!
Me: Fine. But we need to talk. We can't let this issue get out of this room. I already talked to the family. They were ok with it. Plus those meds were important.
Jen: You still could have wrapped it before.
Me: Do you want to pass my meds for me then? That is my job. That was my priority. If I could have wrapped it, I would have. And I already talked to them. This is your job. You're the CNA...
Jen: I'm NOT just a CNA! I'm more than that!
Me: Fine. So like I said, I had meds to give.
Jen: No! You could have wrapped it!
The back-and-forth goes on for a little while like that until she walks around me again and leaves. After that, the only time we talked again during the rest of the shift was when I asked her if she took a patient's blood pressure (she didn't document it) and she asked me about a patient's diet. I even talked to the patient's family afterwards and asked if there was a problem. They insisted there wasn't and asked me why I thought there was. I mentioned that I know Jen came to them a little while ago, and they said "Oh yeah she seemed pretty pissed."
We both talked to our charge RN individually. The next day (Jen wasn't working but I was), the same charge RN tells me that I need to apologize to Jen or do whatever I can to mend things because Jen told our director about this event and that she was going to file an incident report because she felt her safety was at risk. Charge RN tells me that our director told her to tell me to file a MIDAS (our internal reporting service) so that I can defend myself. Charge RN says that she already vouched for me. I filled out my MIDAS report at the end of my shift.
That's that. I am a 24 year old male RN and Jen is a 40-something year old CNA. I have been an RN on our med-surg/telemetry unit for two years. For pretty much all of that time, I was the only male worker, RN or CNA, on the floor on day shift. Jen and I have known each other that entire time. We were good friends and even took pictures together at work. Also, I'm confident most of my other female coworkers would vouch for me as well.
What do you all think? Was I in the wrong here? Was she in the wrong? Is my career and license in jeopardy? I know we both could have definitely handled things better, but I felt that her non-stop yelling, insulting, and unwillingness to slow down and listen and talk prevented us from squashing this issue.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Ulterior motive usually, not always, but usually selfish, right? Though, instead of ulterior motive, I would say "a reason." People apologize for a reason. No matter how you try to spin it, you apologize for a reason - good, bad, or what not - still a reason.
To clarify: When I said "What is the point of apologizing to someone who pretty much declared that he/she is after your job?," I am not saying someone actually declared that he/she is after one's job, or anyone's job. However, if she did file one, she placed the OP's job in jeopardy.
Incident reports should be used as opportunities for teaching moments and not used in retaliation, but, come on, there are managers who use them to write employees up, and effectively block them from transferring to another unit, only to be forced to resign or be fired eventually.
With that said, don't get me wrong - I am not saying that one should not apologize at all; however, it is best not to approach a complainant once an incident report has been filed. As mentioned before: "... it would be giving fodder to the complainant (in this case, the CNA). I do not know about you but I would not want to give someone more ammo against me."
Since when does apologizing provide someone with "more ammo"?
Not only should the OP apologize but Jen should too. They need to calmly talk to each other, discuss what happened to get their feelings out & make sure an event like this doesn't happen again.
If they don't clear the air between them I bet another dramafest will ensue between them. The OP is mad at Jen for yelling at him & writing an incident report on him. Jen is mad at the OP for blocking her in the supply room & whatever else. It would be healthy for the work environment. They have to work together & now you don't have to love or even like everyone you work with you at least have to withstand them. But if the OP can't withstand Jen & vice versa it can make for a very toxic work environment.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I can't believe the amount of people telling the OP not to apologize. Honestly it makes me sick. He is a man & made Jen feel threatened. I don't think Jen is out for the OP's job & wants the OP fired, but what he did is in no way, shape or form ok! They both messed up & should both apologize. Two wrongs don't make a right.
This is bringing back a bad memory. I was working at a nursing home a couple years ago. I was single & very friendly, some would say flirtaous. There was a med tech, he was probably in his early 40s & he was probably 6' (I'm all of 5'2"). We got along great at work & he made that place bearable.
Well one day we were putting meds away in the med room (the med room needed a key to enter with & had no windows) & he grabbed my breasts & tried to kiss me. Obviously I pushed him away & walked out of the med room. I didn't speak to him the rest of my shift & debated on what I should do. Eventually I went to my DON & reported what happened. I didn't want him fired, didn't want him gone but what he did was inexcusable.
What the OP did to Jen is not ok & he needs to apologize. Blocking a woman in a room is scary. I've had it done to me before & even if you know the person it scares the living you know what out of you.
So for everyone telling the OP he doesn't need to apologize, maybe you should rethink that. What if the OP barricaded *you* a room, would *you* want an apology? I sure as hell would!
I'm not saying Jen shouldn't apologize to the OP. I think they need to sit down with a charge nurse or nurse manager & calmly hash this all out.
Yea if Jen reacted the way she did and especially in front of others, she absolutely should be apologizing too. I was refraining from my opinion on her part because I didn't get her side and the OP asked for opinions on his. But she was way to dramatic.
Like I said, I have been blocked from leaving a situation twice, by 2 females actually. One female was twice my size. The other female in front of curtain rooms and multiple witnesses completely went crazy and tried blocking me in the nursing station. I had to take really deep breaths because my Mexican side was trying hard to come through! That was one of the only incident reports I have ever written in my career and that was because I was told to.
It would have been nice if the two could have made amends; however, once an incident report is filed, it is best for the accused to not approach the complainant, considering that there will be an investigation.
Based on the OP's posts: Perhaps the CNA is not looking to get the OP fired, but, if that is the case, why even threaten an incident report? Why not give the OP a chance to apologize before even considering an incident report?
An incident report leaves a paper trail that may negatively affect the OP's current and future employment.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Yea if Jen reacted the way she did and especially in front of others, she absolutely should be apologizing too. I was refraining from my opinion on her part because I didn't get her side and the OP asked for opinions on his. But she was way to dramatic.
Like I said, I have been blocked from leaving a situation twice, by 2 females actually. One female was twice my size. The other female in front of curtain rooms and multiple witnesses completely went crazy and tried blocking me in the nursing station. I had to take really deep breaths because my Mexican side was trying hard to come through! That was one of the only incident reports I have ever written in my career and that was because I was told to.
Of course. If Jen *did* act that way then she should be apologizing too.
lol your Mexican side! Hahahahaha!
Yeah being blocked in is not fun & can be really scary. That's why I don't understand why so many educated professionals are telling the OP not to apologize. If I was threatened in any way, shape or form at work by a coworker I better get a damn apology! Cause I know if I get threatened by a patient/family member I'm not getting an apology. The patient might not know better, not saying it's ok, but they might not be in the right state of mind. But I know my coworker, an educated individual, knows that threatening someone is wrong.
If I were Jen & the OP blocked me in but then quickly apologized I don't think I would've written an incident report because he realized very quickly what he did was wrong. But he didn't, hasn't & probably won't. So in my eyes the incident report was justified. You can't let something that major just slip under the rug, that would be sending the message that what he did was ok & it's not. Which is why Jen wrote the incident report.
If Jen were really after the OP, why hasn't she done anything before? Why is this her first attempt at getting the OP fired? Wouldn't Jen have done more things to get the OP fired by now?
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
OrganizedChaos,
It would have been nice if the two could have make amends; however once an incident report is filed, it is best for the accused to not approach the complainaint; there will be an investigation.
Based on the OP's posts: Perhaps the CNA is not looking to get the OP fired, but, if that is the case, why even threaten an incident report? Why not give the OP a chance to apologize before even considering an incident report? An incident report leaves a paper trail that may negatively affect the OP's current and future employment.
I don't think the two should talk alone. That would be a horrid idea. I think they need to clear the air with a charge nurse or nurse manager with them in the room.
You'll have to ask the OP why he didn't ever offer up an apology.
If someone threatened me & didn't apologize I would write an incident report. Because, like in my previous post, it's not ok. Letting the OP get away with what he did is sending the message that it is ok. He either should've apologized or gotten the incident report. Since he didn't apologize he got hit with an incident report.
I don't think the two should talk alone. That would be a horrid idea. I think they need to clear the air with a charge nurse or nurse manager with them in the room.
You'll have to ask the OP why he didn't ever offer up an apology.
If someone threatened me & didn't apologize I would write an incident report. Because, like in my previous post, it's not ok. Letting the OP get away with what he did is sending the message that it is ok. He either should've apologized or gotten the incident report. Since he didn't apologize he got hit with an incident report.
Yes, the two should not be alone...
Based on the OP's posts, it does not seem that the CNA even gave him the chance to apology (i.e. have a meeting with the OP and a charge nurse) before considering an incident report.
Sigh...it began with a family's request...My condolences to those who work the day shift or work on units that allow family members to stay overnight :/
~Mi Vida Loca~RN brought up a *great* NO *excellent* point. Why did the OP go to the break room to talk to Jen when the OP stated Jen was walking into the break room for lunch as he was leaving. What was the purpose? He knew she was in the break room, he knew why, when her lunch started & should end.
I'm starting to think the OP is the one instigated all the drama.
I thought I explained this part already. Before all of this happened, I was having my lunch. Towards the end of my lunch, she came in. I didn't ask whether she was on break (15 mins) or lunch (30 mins), so I didn't know if she was on either. Maybe she just went in to sit for a minute and get something from her locker (I've seen a lot of the women on my floor pull out some scented sprays to feel refreshed and not stink mid-shift). I went in there because if she wasn't on either her lunch or break, I would have asked her to wrap the IV.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
I thought I explained this part already. Before all of this happened, I was having my lunch. Towards the end of my lunch, she came in. I didn't ask whether she was on break (15 mins) or lunch (30 mins), so I didn't know if she was on either. Maybe she just went in to sit for a minute and get something from her locker (I've seen a lot of the women on my floor pull out some scented sprays to feel refreshed and not stink mid-shift). I went in there because if she wasn't on either her lunch or break, I would have asked her to wrap the IV.
Your story keeps changing. Again, it seems weird to me.
Exactly! I just don't understand why the OP spent so much time & energy hunting down the tech when all he had to do was wrap the IV site & go on with his med pass. I understand he currently had meds in his possession but he could've either locked them up or given them to the patient & then gone back to the patient that needed the IV site to be covered.
Not all techs are helpful & there are some hospitals that don't even employ techs. If it were me & the tech wasn't readily available, I would've just gone in & covered the IV site. It sure would've taken less time & energy than hunting down the tech & getting into this hot mess.
I agree with you. I would have wrapped up the IV myself after I finished my med passes. However, as I said in my original post, I had just finished my last or second-to-last med pass and walking down the hall when I was suddenly yelled at by Jen.
Also, I didn't "hunt her down." I knew where she was because before all of this happened, I was finishing my lunch in the break room when she walked in. She might have been on break (15 mins), lunch (30 mins), or had just went in to relax for a minute. I didn't know at the time. If she wasn't on either of her allotted break or lunch times, I would have asked her to wrap the IV. Instead, as I said in my original post, after she told me she was at lunch I said something along the lines of "Ok it can wait."
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Yes, the two should not be alone...
Based on the OP's posts, it does not seem that the CNA even gave him the chance to apology (i.e. have a meeting with the OP and a charge nurse) before considering an incident report.
Sigh...it began with a family's request...My condolences to those who work the day shift or work on units that allow family members to stay overnight :/
Why should it take a meeting with the OP, Jen *and* a charge nurse? The OP (& Jen) should be smart & be adult enough to know that they should apologize.
The only time I had similar drama to this is when I was very young & new to nursing. Probably close to the OP's age too & similar timing in amount of time worked as a nurse. I had a CNA yell at me in the hall of a nursing home. Now that I am older & more experienced I have learned to pick my battles. That is not a battle I would've waged. Not worth it in my book.
Your story keeps changing. Again, it seems weird to me.
I don't understand your suspicions. Perhaps it was due to my wording? Or maybe a lack of clarification? I think I've re-explained and elaborated on this part of the story, like, 3 times now. I'll explain for a 4th time so you'll understand.
When I was asked to wrap the IV, I went off the find Jen. I knew she was in the break room because before all of this happened, I was having my lunch. Towards the end of my lunch, Jen walked in the break room. I didn't ask if she was on break (15 mins), lunch (30 mins), or if she simply went in to cool off for a minute. If she wasn't on either break or lunch, I would have asked her to wrap the IV. She told me she was at lunch, so I said "Ok it can wait," as I mentioned in my original post.
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OrganizedChaos, LVN
1 Article; 6,883 Posts
Since when does apologizing provide someone with "more ammo"?
Not only should the OP apologize but Jen should too. They need to calmly talk to each other, discuss what happened to get their feelings out & make sure an event like this doesn't happen again.
If they don't clear the air between them I bet another dramafest will ensue between them. The OP is mad at Jen for yelling at him & writing an incident report on him. Jen is mad at the OP for blocking her in the supply room & whatever else. It would be healthy for the work environment. They have to work together & now you don't have to love or even like everyone you work with you at least have to withstand them. But if the OP can't withstand Jen & vice versa it can make for a very toxic work environment.