So here's the story. I am a male RN. Recently, I had a conflict while at work with a female CNA. For the sake of anonymity and simplicity, I will call her Jen. A relative of a patient of ours asked for his IV to be wrapped so that they can give him a shower (bless this family for being so involved in his care). I went off to find Jen in the break room and asked her if she was on break or on lunch. She said she was on lunch, so I replied "Ok it can wait then." I explained to the family that I couldn't wrap the IV at this particular time due to my having medications to pass to my other patients, but that Jen could do it when she came back from lunch. I even held the meds that I had in my hand up in the air for them to see. The family understood and said they can wait. I go off to pass my meds.
After I finished my last or second-to-last med pass, I was walking down the hall towards the nurses' station when I hear Jen's voice, screaming "Lapzs! Why didn't you wrap the IV?! The family's so pissed! God! You're so unprofessional!" I stood there dumbfounded. The only words I could get out were "I had meds to give." Before I could explain any more, she scoughed, turned around, and made way for the supply room. I called out her name, but she ignored me and went inside. I followed her in, and on my way I noticed a patient's family member looking stunned (possible witnessed what she was yelling about). The following conversation ensues (as I recall to the best of my memory):
Me: Jen. We need to talk.
Jen: God Lapzs! You could have wrapped the IV!
Me: First of all, if you have a problem with me, you take me somewhere private and talk. You don't yell at me in the hallway like that.
Jen: I wasn't yelling!
Me: Fine. But I told you. I had meds to pass.
Jen: That doesn't matter. You could have wrapped it before! God you are just so lazy!
She tries to walk around me to leave, but I stand in front of her to prevent her from doing so.
Jen: Don't you EVER do that to me!!!
Me: Fine. But we need to talk. We can't let this issue get out of this room. I already talked to the family. They were ok with it. Plus those meds were important.
Jen: You still could have wrapped it before.
Me: Do you want to pass my meds for me then? That is my job. That was my priority. If I could have wrapped it, I would have. And I already talked to them. This is your job. You're the CNA...
Jen: I'm NOT just a CNA! I'm more than that!
Me: Fine. So like I said, I had meds to give.
Jen: No! You could have wrapped it!
The back-and-forth goes on for a little while like that until she walks around me again and leaves. After that, the only time we talked again during the rest of the shift was when I asked her if she took a patient's blood pressure (she didn't document it) and she asked me about a patient's diet. I even talked to the patient's family afterwards and asked if there was a problem. They insisted there wasn't and asked me why I thought there was. I mentioned that I know Jen came to them a little while ago, and they said "Oh yeah she seemed pretty pissed."
We both talked to our charge RN individually. The next day (Jen wasn't working but I was), the same charge RN tells me that I need to apologize to Jen or do whatever I can to mend things because Jen told our director about this event and that she was going to file an incident report because she felt her safety was at risk. Charge RN tells me that our director told her to tell me to file a MIDAS (our internal reporting service) so that I can defend myself. Charge RN says that she already vouched for me. I filled out my MIDAS report at the end of my shift.
That's that. I am a 24 year old male RN and Jen is a 40-something year old CNA. I have been an RN on our med-surg/telemetry unit for two years. For pretty much all of that time, I was the only male worker, RN or CNA, on the floor on day shift. Jen and I have known each other that entire time. We were good friends and even took pictures together at work. Also, I'm confident most of my other female coworkers would vouch for me as well.
What do you all think? Was I in the wrong here? Was she in the wrong? Is my career and license in jeopardy? I know we both could have definitely handled things better, but I felt that her non-stop yelling, insulting, and unwillingness to slow down and listen and talk prevented us from squashing this issue.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
He said that he knew she was in there because she came in to take her break when he was coming off his lunch. Which didn't make sense as far as him asking if she was on lunch of break. It was made to sound like this was already worked out.
Omg! Why did no one realize this before!!!!! That is so weird!!! Why would he go back to the break room to ask her about her break/lunch if Jen went into the break room as he was leaving?? Something now smells fishy!!!
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
It looks like he was very near the break room and didn't have to leave his cart/meds anywhere unattended. And it looks like he had a lot to do.
~Mi Vida Loca~RN brought up a *great* NO *excellent* point. Why did the OP go to the break room to talk to Jen when the OP stated Jen was walking into the break room for lunch as he was leaving. What was the purpose? He knew she was in the break room, he knew why, when her lunch started & should end.
I'm starting to think the OP is the one instigated all the drama.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
Omg! Why did no one realize this before!!!!! That is so weird!!! Why would he go back to the break room to ask her about her break/lunch if Jen went into the break room as he was leaving?? Something now smells fishy!!!
I was trying to behave and keep my assumptions to myself and strictly stick to their questions. I was surprised no one noticed it.
But I try to always remember we are only getting one side.
Frankly, I wouldn't apologize. I'd stand my ground. This sounds like a classic case of a CNA trying to be a big bad wolf. She went to management to try to cover her butt. You cover yours and stick it out. She didn't feel threatened. If she did she wouldn't have started a screaming match with you.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
I was trying to behave and keep my assumptions to myself and strictly stick to their questions. I was surprised no one noticed it.
But I try to always remember we are only getting one side.
I feel like my mind imploded when you pointed that out. My jaw dropped. How many pages in are we & no one else pointed that out? I'm shocked. Something definitely seems off now. Why would you go up to someone you physically saw go on break & discuss their break with them?
"Hey, I know I saw you go on your lunch as I was done with my lunch but I just wanted to confirm that you are definitely taking your lunch. Oh, you are? When do you think you'll be done? I mean I know I saw you come in & everything & we all get the same amount of time for lunch but I was just curious as to what time you'd be done with lunch."
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
Frankly, I wouldn't apologize. I'd stand my ground. This sounds like a classic case of a CNA trying to be a big bad wolf. She went to management to try to cover her butt. You cover yours and stick it out. She didn't feel threatened. If she did she wouldn't have started a screaming match with you.
You're right. Yelling at someone to never block your way again when they clearly block the exit in a heated moment is definitely not the reaction of someone feeling threatened.
I am sure if we were with an agitated patient who managed to (in a closed room) block the door from us leaving as we attempted to leave; our response would be "Oh bobby, stop being silly and get out of my way" or if we were feeling threatened I assume the only viable response would be to cower down and say "please don't hurt me" I can't think of anyone that would sternly say "Don't you ever block me from leaving" :sarcastic:
Ulterior Motives usually come with the meaning that your motive for doing the action is selfish of dishonorable. If I have done something and after reflecting realize I was wrong, I would apologize, not to make myself feel better, not because I am hoping to get out of a bad situations. But simply because I am acknowledging what I did was wrong. The person can forgive me or not. If you take that as an ulterior motive, that's on you and I can't even understand that mentality of thinking.
As someone that has had to de escalate many situations and oversee many situations, I would be less likely to write up or discipline someone that can now acknowledge they have done wrong and apologize then one that makes excuses and refuses to see the error in his ways. If it "appears" he's guilty by apologizing, he probably is. He already admitted he blocked her from leaving and that when she said not to do it again he told her she wasn't leaving until they discussed things. That was in no way shape or form OK. EVER.
No one declared they are after anyone's job. Lets not be so dramatic. She felt threatened. She reported it. Would it have been my first step??? No. But I don't know this woman or her history and she might very well have felt threatened and trapped and by writing an incident report her goal could have simply been to have this documented and for him to get coaching on why this was wrong. We don't have her side of the story.
Ulterior motive usually, not always, but usually selfish, right? Though, instead of ulterior motive, I would say "a reason." People apologize for a reason. No matter how you try to spin it, you apologize for a reason - good, bad, or what not - still a reason.
To clarify: When I said "What is the point of apologizing to someone who pretty much declared that he/she is after your job?," I am not saying someone actually declared that he/she is after one's job, or anyone's job. However, if she did file one, she placed the OP's job in jeopardy.
Incident reports should be used as opportunities for teaching moments and not used in retaliation, but, come on, there are managers who use them to write employees up, and effectively block them from transferring to another unit, only to be forced to resign or be fired eventually.
With that said, don't get me wrong - I am not saying that one should not apologize at all; however, it is best not to approach a complainant once an incident report has been filed. As mentioned before: "... it would be giving fodder to the complainant (in this case, the CNA). I do not know about you but I would not want to give someone more ammo against me."
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
I feel like my mind imploded when you pointed that out. My jaw dropped. How many pages in are we & no one else pointed that out? I'm shocked. Something definitely seems off now. Why would you go up to someone you physically saw go on break & discuss their break with them?
"Hey, I know I saw you go on your lunch as I was done with my lunch but I just wanted to confirm that you are definitely taking your lunch. Oh, you are? When do you think you'll be done? I mean I know I saw you come in & everything & we all get the same amount of time for lunch but I was just curious as to what time you'd be done with lunch."
Ehhh there were quite a few red flags that there is most likely a little more to the story, and cases like this I always wish Jenny was around. #butthatsnoneofmybusiness
She can go in my make believe community where she is snapping at Juan for interrupting her and having the audacity to ask her how many patients she had, his lazy butt just wanted help and they can chat with Jon and the sad poor nurse that had the saddest story ever. They all hang out and talk while another poster gladly shares her Goldfish with all the tall nurses who are being mean to the pre-nursing student because she is just too pretty, Molly is going on and on about her prestigious elite world renowned research and medical/nursing college that is the best in the country before Karen who is venting about the bully nurses tells her to stop being fake, she isn't even in nursing school and the college isn't even in the US, meanwhile Jon has this boisterous laugh and says #thisteatho
But hey at least the horses and the dogs matter!!!!
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
I can't believe the amount of people telling the OP not to apologize. Honestly it makes me sick. He is a man & made Jen feel threatened. I don't think Jen is out for the OP's job & wants the OP fired, but what he did is in no way, shape or form ok! They both messed up & should both apologize. Two wrongs don't make a right.
This is bringing back a bad memory. I was working at a nursing home a couple years ago. I was single & very friendly, some would say flirtaous. There was a med tech, he was probably in his early 40s & he was probably 6' (I'm all of 5'2"). We got along great at work & he made that place bearable.
Well one day we were putting meds away in the med room (the med room needed a key to enter with & had no windows) & he grabbed my breasts & tried to kiss me. Obviously I pushed him away & walked out of the med room. I didn't speak to him the rest of my shift & debated on what I should do. Eventually I went to my DON & reported what happened. I didn't want him fired, didn't want him gone but what he did was inexcusable.
What the OP did to Jen is not ok & he needs to apologize. Blocking a woman in a room is scary. I've had it done to me before & even if you know the person it scares the living you know what out of you.
So for everyone telling the OP he doesn't need to apologize, maybe you should rethink that. What if the OP barricaded *you* a room, would *you* want an apology? I sure as hell would!
I'm not saying Jen shouldn't apologize to the OP. I think they need to sit down with a charge nurse or nurse manager & calmly hash this all out.
Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
Ulterior motive usually, not always, but usually selfish, right? That's exactly what I said isn't it????? Word for word. Selfish or Dishonest usually. Exactly as I wrote.
Though, instead of ulterior motive, I would say "a reason." People apologize for a reason. No matter how you try to spin it, you apologize for a reason - good, bad, or what not - still a reason.
To clarify: When I said "What is the point of apologizing to someone who pretty much declared that he/she is after your job?," I am not saying someone actually declared that he/she is after one's job, or anyone's job. However, if she did file one, she placed the OP's job in jeopardy.
Incident reports should be used as opportunities for teaching moments and not used in retaliation, but, come on, there are managers who use them to write employees up, and effectively block them from transferring to another unit, only to be forced to resign or be fired eventually.
With that said, don't get me wrong - I am not saying that one should not apologize at all; however, it is best not to approach a complainant once an incident report has been filed. As mentioned before: "... it would be giving fodder to the complainant (in this case, the CNA). I do not know about you but I would not want to give someone more ammo against me."
I did not try to spin anything. I stated clearly what I meant. Not sure why you are trying to change that?? I don't think you get to determine what incident reports get to be used as. The MIDAS reporting system is for any incident. She obviously felt it was warranted. Management can do with it as they please. Usually the investigate and see if it's warranted. If it is they might go into a verbal coaching, written warning. Etc. Etc. The employee had every right to report an incident of a nurse in a hostile situation blocking her from leaving when she tried and further telling her she wasn't leaving until the issue was done or whatever wording she used.
I don't know about you, but if I am wrong I am wrong and I will apologize. if it "gives more ammo" then I will take that risk. But if I self reflect and realize I was inappropriate and handled a situation wrong, I will absolutely apologize. But hey, that's just me.
Specializes in M/S, LTC, Corrections, PDN & drug rehab.
Ehhh there were quite a few red flags that there is most likely a little more to the story, and cases like this I always wish Jenny was around. #butthatsnoneofmybusiness
She can go in my make believe community where she is snapping at Juan for interrupting her and having the audacity to ask her how many patients she had, his lazy butt just wanted help and they can chat with Jon and the sad poor nurse that had the saddest story ever. They all hang out and talk while another poster gladly shares her Goldfish with all the tall nurses who are being mean to the pre-nursing student because she is just too pretty, Molly is going on and on about her prestigious elite world renowned research and medical/nursing college that is the best in the country before Karen who is venting about the bully nurses tells her to stop being fake, she isn't even in nursing school and the college isn't even in the US, meanwhile Jon has this boisterous laugh and says #thisteatho
But hey at least the horses and the dogs matter!!!!
Yes! Yes yes yes to alllllll of it!!!! Yaaaaaaaasssssss!!!!!
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:sarcastic:
OrganizedChaos, LVN
1 Article; 6,883 Posts
Omg! Why did no one realize this before!!!!! That is so weird!!! Why would he go back to the break room to ask her about her break/lunch if Jen went into the break room as he was leaving?? Something now smells fishy!!!