A poll, regarding nurses' opinions on Magnet status

[klone]

This is not a formal research study, I'm just curious about the prevailing attitude of nurses, and what better place to ask than the meeting ground of 100K nurses?

So my manager mentioned to me the other day about how our facility is in the process of obtaining Magnet status. I then mentioned that I'm actually writing a paper about it for my program. I gave my opinion about Magnet designation, and I could tell by her expression that I was blaspheming.

It seems to me that hospital administration and executives seem to care a lot about Magnet status, but plain ol' nurses, for whom the designation was originally supposed to benefit, don't seem to care.

In research for my paper, I learned that less than 7% of facilities in the US have Magnet designation, and only about 3% have redesignation. That's per the ANCC. Of course, they do not share in their stats how many facilities APPLY for Magnet status. And I'm wondering if the lower REdesignation rate is due to how stringent their guidelines are, or due to the realization after the fact by facilities that it's not worth it and they drop out of the program.

So my question to you, my fellow nurses (please, nurses only): does the fact that a hospital has Magnet status influence your opinion of the facility as a place to work?

[firstinfamily, RN]

I live in an area where hospitals are trying to complete their Magnet status. From what I have discovered none of them are better to work for than those that are not trying to achieve Magnet. I do know pts who go outside of the state to a Magnet hospital, however, it achieved Magnet status when it was first popular. Perhaps that is one of the draws for that particular hospital. Some of the older nurses have complained they are being forced to complete their BSN and are close to retirement, has created an environment of negative connotation for them. Are we giving any better care working for a Magnet hospital?? Is pt satisfaction any better at a Magnet hospital??

[SubSippi]

No, there are a LOT more requirements/expectations than just the BSN thing.

Magnet Recognition Program® Model

Thanks! I guess I should have taken the time to to google it, seeing as how I work at one.

So klone, you seem to be pro magnet. Have you seen instances in which a hospital achieving magnet status has resulted in better patient care?

I'm not as curious about studies that have been conducted on the subject, because it seems like anyone can conduct a study that would "prove" whatever they wanted. I'd be more interested to hear about specific instances that you (or anyone) had observed directly.

[Kalipso]

Having worked at both magnet and non-magnet facilities, I have to tell you that I LOVE magnet hospitals. To me it does make a huge difference. I find their policies make much more 'sense' as far as nursing goes. The polices are more detailed and complete leaving less guess work. Which to me is wonderful because if you and a more senior nurse or administration disagree on a practice then usually it can be found in a policy. If the policy is not detailed enough the disagreement does not get settled and this can sometimes lead to 'this is how we've always done it' practices continuing even though a newer nurse may be more educated about evidence based practice for that procedure. Magnet nursing hospitals also tend to enforce participation and extra education on their nursing staff. It can feel like a pain in the butt to have to spend more than your 36 hours a week at work because you have to go to a committee meeting or do education but overall it makes for a better staff of coworkers. Also the status generally leads to more reasonable nurse/patient ratios which is better for the patients. I also find that magnet hospital nurses are better at understanding and practicing teamwork which allows nurses to feel safe to do things like go pee, eat, and take a 15 minute break. I think magnet hospitals do give better patient care.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

No, there are a LOT more requirements/expectations than just the BSN thing.

Magnet Recognition Program® Model

Or, more correctly, the ability to make it appear they are meeting the expectations. Twice I have been told exactly what to say in response to Magnet surveyors questions. One hospital even handed out printed cards with the approved answers on them. We were threatened with our jobs if we dared answer honestly rather than the company line.

The great thing about survey days is that, for once, we were staffed well. No travelers to be seen, despite about 1/3 of nurses being travelers on a normal day.

[sistrmoon, BSN, RN]

The magnet hospital I worked at was my first nursing job. It was horrific. No support staff to speak of, ratios were bad, and acuity through the roof. I nearly called Safe Harbor many times. I worked my required year and ran as fast as I could. My current hospital is 4-6 patients on nights(I have never had more than 6 patients.) 2-3 PCAs, phlebotomy, clinical support, even a clerk on overnights 6 nights a week! These things(none of which the other hospital had) make a huge difference. Vomiting out memorized Magnet interview answers or even higher education initiatives make zero difference if you can't keep your head above water with patient care. I've been at my current non magnet hospital for almost 7 years and haven't looked back, except to laugh bitterly at how we were drilled and coached while never supported where it really counted.

[jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B]

I find it really sort of amusing...sadly, that out of all of this magnetism and transformation for the future, there is no data or evidence that there proves to be better/good patient outcomes. (per the link provided). Interestingly, it is at the very bottom of all the flowery language and empowerment bruh-ha-ha.

Very, very clever marketing. I will cut to the chase--in order for directors to maintain control and also prove that they are good for the bottom line of the facility, they elude to the fact that they can transform nurses with their magnetic personality and skill to completely change the way nurses work. Educational opportunities are for nurses to work "smarter" ie: without ancillary staff, as they are empowered. There is no room for unions, as nurses govern themselves....with the final say being the grand-poo-pa of this debacle, the director themselves.

In my experience, magnet could have their own pyramid scheme or even their own religion. Frightening. And all of this with absolutely no data to support that this is good for the patient, or leads to better patient outcomes. Uhm, Ok then.....what's the goal?

[BSNbeauty, BSN, RN]

Magnet Smagnet. I honestly believe that some hospitals are simply better than others. It has nothing to do with Magnet IMHO.

[happynurse14]

I am a new grad nurse and when applying for jobs I only sought magnet status hospitals. I'm currently working at one of the top institutions in the US. My thinking was that I want to be the best nurse I can be, so what better way to do that than to surround myself around the best.

I have worked as extern and in clinicals at non magnet hospitals and can say wholeheartedly that the hospital I work at now has a earned it's title as magnet. The nurses exceed the standard in everything that they do. The teamwork, the patient/nurse interactions, the critical thinking skills, vigilance and promptness with care, dedication to patient satisfaction, etc is amazing. But the one thing I can say about this hospital that goes above and beyond when compared to the other hospitals I've worked at is the willingness to welcome, train, and help me thrive as a new nurse. They are happy to see new grads, students, shadows, etc on the unit because these people are seen as an asset, a potential to become a great health care worker, an opportunity to boost the reputation even more.

Overall, I cannot say for certain that it is the magnet status that makes the working environment so amazing to a new grad nurse, but I can say that this magnet hospital has far surpassed any of the other hospitals I've been at in regard to nursing care. If on of my family members became ill, I absolutely would take them to a magnet hospital when given the choice.

[anon456, BSN, RN]

My hospital wants to become magnet, and I live in an area where all the good ones are. Which means that my ADN no longer is useful to them. When I tried to find another job recently, or even transfer within the hospital, every dept was looking for that BSN degree to get 80% BSN rate. I am now doing my BSN. That is the only reason why I am doing it and it stinks at my age.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Are we giving any better care working for a Magnet hospital?? Is pt satisfaction any better at a Magnet hospital??

Actually, according to some of the research I've found in writing my paper, the answer is yes to both.

Chen, J., Koren, M. E., Munroe, D. J., & Yao, P. (2014, October/December). Is the hospital’s Magnet status linked to HCAHPS scores? Journal of Nursing Care Quality, 29(4), 327-335. http://dx.doi.org/10.1097/NCQ.0000000000000062

Evans, T., Rittenhouse, K., Horst, M., Osler, T., Rogers, A., Miller, J., ... Rogers, F. B. (2014, July). Magnet hospitals are a magnet for higher survival rates at adult trauma centers. Journal of Trauma & Acute Care Surgery, 77(1), 89-94.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Thanks! I guess I should have taken the time to to google it, seeing as how I work at one.

So klone, you seem to be pro magnet. Have you seen instances in which a hospital achieving magnet status has resulted in better patient care?

I'm not as curious about studies that have been conducted on the subject, because it seems like anyone can conduct a study that would "prove" whatever they wanted. I'd be more interested to hear about specific instances that you (or anyone) had observed directly.

A few things. First, I went into this paper being pretty ANTI-magnet. But as I've read more research, I am starting to revise my thoughts on the subject.

With regard to your last paragraph - what you're wanting is the exact OPPOSITE of evidence-based practice. EBP is based on research, not on anecdotal stories. Nevertheless, several people in this thread HAVE shared their positive experiences on Magnet facilities. Did you read those?

I would not go so far as to say I'm *pro* Magnet. But I'm not as anti-Magnet as I was two days ago, before I started doing this research and writing this paper.

[klone, MSN, RN]

I find it really sort of amusing...sadly, that out of all of this magnetism and transformation for the future, there is no data or evidence that there proves to be better/good patient outcomes. (per the link provided). Interestingly, it is at the very bottom of all the flowery language and empowerment bruh-ha-ha.

See my citations above.

All that being said, I do find the fact that this whole program seems to be conceived of and created by the ANCC to be suspicious. They created a perceived deficiency or need, then created their own idea to fix this perceived deficiency. And they benefit a LOT by it. So I'm still very skeptical about the ANCC and their whole marketing of Magnet. I keep reading "Magnet is the gold standard for hospitals" - well, who originally stated that? The ANCC, the creators of Magnet. I wouldn't call it a pyramid scheme, per se, but I definitely find the whole genesis of Magnet to be specious.

I don't have a lot of positive thoughts on the ANCC as a whole. I do think they're BRILLIANT marketers and have made a lot of money for themselves by creating a need and then filling it.