A male perspective

klone, MSN, RN · Sep 30, 2014

I'm sorry it's not what you thought it would be. What about what you wrote is a male perspective? ETA, nevermind - I see what you wrote at the bottom.

So you don't think 80K is good money for a career that's achievable by someone with a 2-year degree? I really beg to differ on that.

firstinfamily, RN · Sep 30, 2014

Welcome to the world of nursing!!! It bothers me that the CEOs of non-profit facilities are making half a million when the hands-on staff are making average pay. Yes, it does seem nursing takes the brunt of the attacks when they happen, and the back stabbing is part of working with women (sorry, but true). I wonder if women are more competitive than men in the workplace. My husband is in a male dominated field and according to him the men just get out what is on their minds or verbalize what is wrong etc. Women tend to attach feelings to everything and internalize things more. I have never been in a group of female nurses where someone was not down talking another co-worker and it is in every nursing environment. Most likely that is part of our problem, we cannot even be complimentary of each other!! Also, I think maturity has a great deal to do with it. I work mostly with nurses 20 years younger than myself and I find some of the things that gets them worked up are very trivial to me. It depends on your work ethics, what is really important to you and the environment in which you work. I have been in very supportive environments and in very detrimental environments. Nurses seem to be last in the pecking order of things in the medical field. I am not sure why the CRNA makes more than the CNP unless it is because the CNP has to work under the supervision of a MD. The CRNA I believe is reimbursed differently and can function more independently. Many states are looking at letting CNP practice independent of MDs, that is if the AMA will let them. Usually CRNAs are hired by the facility, where as CNP are hired by the MD group(?).

mhy12784 · Sep 30, 2014

Maybe your nursing job just sucks?

Fresh out of nursing school I got 75k with 0 years experience working 36 hours a week, healthcare that I dont pay a dime for out of pocket, a 401k, paid holidays, weekends off (yeah I work in the OR so paid holidays, and weekends off)

Pension's are a dying breed, not many places offer them.

The reason why nurses dont get 150k a year is supply and demand. And the current healthcare system (of which nurses are a substantial cost) wouldn't be sustainable at all if nurses were getting mega money.

Compare nurses to what any other bachelors/associates entry degree gets you, and theres no way you can say it doesnt pay well.

Is it mega money no of course not, but there are opportunities out there for those who are interested and motivated.

scottaprn · Sep 30, 2014

75,000 a year puts you in the top 10 percent of American workers.

Do I wish I made more money-absolutely. Would I trade my career-not a chance

mhy12784 · Sep 30, 2014

75,000 a year puts you in the top 10 percent of American workers.
Do I wish I made more money-absolutely. Would I trade my career-not a chance

To be fair thats really only based on gross income, and nothing else.

if youre making 75,000 a year in california, ny, and im sure other areas of the country you are far from the top 10%

That said its still pretty good money no matter where you live

scottaprn · Sep 30, 2014

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/01/15/business/one-percent-map.html

A fun toy. If you and your spouse both make 75,000 (150,000 for the household) you are in the top 12 percent of Los Angeles.

75,000 alone puts you at the top 37 percent of LA households with only 1 paycheck.

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Sep 30, 2014

But most Nurses think 80 K is good money! I beg to differ if you really knew what most educated and uneducated HARD working people really make.

I have a large extended family and no one has ever come close to earning $80,000 annually. I should mention that I was born and raised in coastal southern CA, which is a pricey place to come of age.

My mother worked at a solar products factory for 25 years (1979 to 2004). She started at $4.75/hr and left earning $15/hr. In other words, her pay barely kept up with inflation. My father's work history is spottier and less stable, but he's never earned more than $15/hr. Today he earns in the $14 to $15/hourly range at a big box retail store.

I earn in the $75,000 to $80,000 range annually with an RN license and an ASN degree. I earn significantly more than the median in my city and in the entire country. Most households do not earn $80,000 per year.

I am cognizant that many UPS drivers, oil field workers, roofers and unionized auto workers earn more than me and might have less education.

However, having grown up in a working class household where both parents were manual laborers who had no education beyond high school, I realize that these men and women's work situations are more precarious than mine. If they are laid off, terminated or forced to resign from these well-paying jobs, the next job usually pays them half of what they had been earning.

Therefore, the well-paid oil field worker, UPS driver or unionized auto worker does not have it that good. They have less job security in a society that is making a change from an industrial work force to more of a service-based workforce where knowledge work is valued and manual labor is devalued with each passing day.

HouTx, BSN, MSN, EdD · Sep 30, 2014

CRNAs make more than NPs because of the US 'surgery versus medicine' dichotomy. Surgical services have ALWAYS been reimbursed at higher rates than medical services... nothing to do with gender. In areas where I have worked over the years, it has become obvious to me that male nurses tend to gravitate toward the action-oriented areas where they can do more 'stuff' and are required to do less 'caring' activity (ADLs, emotional support, teaching, etc.). Again, probably nothing to do with gender-based discrimination... just the way that brains are wired. For instance, most of the 'personality survey' type studies of nurses reveal that the most content female urses are those with androgynous personality traits rather than the super-girlie nurses.

I am waiting for the financial axe to fall on healthcare salaries... with more bundling and outcome-based payment schemes, the ever increasing CRNA/Anesthesia salary levels are simply not sustainable in the long run.

RubySlippers:) · Sep 30, 2014

At least you're not paid less being a male in a female dominated industry. As a female truck driver I was paid less and got less respect than the men. The day I got out of trucking was the best day of my life! :)

ThePrincessBride, MSN, RN, NP · Sep 30, 2014

Does anyone else out there think that Nurses get jacked around often. I do as I am on my second career as a Nurse. I only have six years experience. I left my 100K job m-f 50-55 hours a week as a trucker for Americas largest parcel company, to become a Nurse. Yes a high school diploma got me a 401K, pension, health insurance that I did not pay a dime for, 6 weeks vacation, paid holidays, weekends off, and retirement of 3K per month with 30 years of service, I would have been 51 years old and a millionaire with the profit sharing and stocks given to me.

I think your success as a trucker has jacked up your perspective. While I know truck drivers can pull that much money (my brother and uncle make great money truck driving), the vast majority of professions do not pay or offer the benefits that you have just described in your previous profession.

But as I saw it I could help people, and if I followed this dream of Nursing I would be rewarded, so I thought. Now reality sets in I probably won't retire until 65, I buy my crappy health insurance and my pay is 80k per year working 60 plus hours a week. Did I mention all that and a BSN which costs 30K. HMM, did I make the right decision? Well maybe because I slightly more enjoy Nursing over trucking. But most Nurses think 80 K is good money! I beg to differ if you really knew what most educated and uneducated HARD working people really make.

You were naive, to put it bluntly. First off, if you would have done your research, you would have realized that nurses, as a whole, don't pull 100k/yr without years of experience or lots of overtime OR living in a high cost of living area.

That being said, you are very wrong in your last last few sentences. 80k is great money especially when your average combined household income is only 50k (and that is with TWO incomes). A new grad nurse can and does pull more than 50k in their first year of practice. The new grads at my facility make almost 25/hr base pay. Most, if not all, will be stuck on night shift, bringing them up to $30/hr. Then you have weekend differentials ($35/hr) and holiday pay which is 2.5 time if worked. A new grad good EASILY pull 60k/yr with very little overtime. And, because this is a government own facility, nurses get pensions and great benefits (including those paid holidays and great health insurance packages); not all facilities have crappy benefits for nurses. But if you truly believed that as a nurse, you would be getting 3k/month in retirement, profits shares (lol) AND weekends off, you were very misinformed.

However, nurses have something that truck drivers DON'T have; more opportunities for advancement (CRNA, NP, etc), stability and more flexibility. I know nurses who work the typical 3 12s a week, some work 7 on, 7 off and other works very PRN and still make as much as the average household (on PRN status). Others travel (I know a traveler nurse. She loves it!). If a nurse gets laid off, guess what? She/he still has plenty of options and with the right experience and connections, can still get a job making as much if not more than his/her previous job. If a trucker gets laid off? He/she will be in a world of hurt as the opportunities for the trucker is much more limited than those of a nurse, and in that in itself gives nursing a distinct advantage.

I think that the reason Nurses get jacked around is because they do not stand up together. In my past career it was male dominated. When someone or something was not right people stood together and it worked. In this female dominated profession I have found back stabbing, and people out for themselves.

I agree with this sentiment. It is sad, but true.

Why is it that an NP makes substantially less than a CRNA. I have not looked at the numbers but seems their are a high number of male CRNA's.

Because CRNAs could kill someone instantly if they made a mistake? The level of liability and education needed is arguably much higher than that of an NP. NPs are facing a glut in the market with everyone and their sibling taking NP classes online at these University of Phoenix-type schools while CRNA schools are much more competitve and selective. There is no such thing as a grad-entry CRNA program and experience, experience, experience is required to even get through the application process. NPs? You could have a bachelor's degree in Arts and become an NP without ever touching a patient at the bedside (scary though). CRNA? That would not apply.

As someone else said, surgery is almost always reimbursed at higher rates, but also CRNA schools have higher standards and less saturation. It has nothing to do with gender/sex differences.

dudette10, MSN, RN · Sep 30, 2014

Considering I can barely stand driving a 30 minute commute, they *would* have to pay me all that money to drive 50 hours a week. Blech!