I am taking online A&P II at a community college. The course includes a lab component, though lab is not a requirement for the nursing program to which I have been admitted. I am not squeamish (used to be an EMT), nor do I oppose human cadaver dissection. I do, however, object to animal dissection for ethical reasons. I contacted my professor to request an alternative to the cow eye and heart dissection activities citing my ethical objection to animal dissection, and the fact that I haven't eaten or worn animals for over two decades. I expressed my willingness to engage in an alternate activity, such as an interactive, multimedia software program (we already utilize such software to conduct experiments on virtual lab animals). My request was denied. I was informed that if I chose not to do the dissections, I would be penalized with a deduction in points.
In response to my e-mail asking my professor to reconsider, I received the following reply (excerpt):
Would you tell someone who is badly mangled in a auto accident and bleeding to death that you cannot work on them because you are a vegetarian? I would hope not. If so, then you should choose another career.
My professor also called my ethical opposition to animal dissection into question with the following statement:
I understand being a vegetarian but this assignment does not require you to eat these animal specimens.
I found his message to be inappropriate, offensive, and ridiculous. I would like to obtain some outside perspective and would appreciate any comments you may have about this situation. Thanks.
Specializes in Peds/outpatient FP,derm,allergy/private duty.
This thread is a form of animal cruelty as this Dead horse has been kicked, beaten, dragged through the mud, folded, spindled and mutilated. Only thing left is the glue factory.
Right! But just when you think it has finally gone to the happy pasture, it proves it's will to live, perhaps because it's unscathed by so many posts that whiz by, completely missing the point of the original.
Uh, ohhh. . . I'm sending it back to page one now! ** !
It really is up to the professor to make it all comfortable for the students. It does not take that much creativity to get around the subject.
Why is it "up to the professor to make it all comfortable for the students?"
As adult health care professionals, we face all kinds of things that are uncomfortable. (Moral, ethical, legal dilemmas, religious differences, death, pain, harassment, abuse, inappropriate use of resources, waste and fraud, just to name a few.) If we can't deal with those things, we are ineffective and useless in our jobs, which ultimately harms our patients and weakens our profession.
It is not the instructor's job to make the student comfortable. It is the student's job to learn to deal with discomfort in a way that does not interfere with the job at hand.
Why is it "up to the professor to make it all comfortable for the students?"
As adult health care professionals, we face all kinds of things that are uncomfortable. (Moral, ethical, legal dilemmas, religious differences, death, pain, harassment, abuse, inappropriate use of resources, waste and fraud, just to name a few.) If we can't deal with those things, we are ineffective and useless in our jobs, which ultimately harms our patients and weakens our profession.
It is not the instructor's job to make the student comfortable. It is the student's job to learn to deal with discomfort in a way that does not interfere with the job at hand.
It's all part of adulthood and professionalism.
YES! You nailed it! That's is the point the professor was making, albeit succinctly.
Why is it "up to the professor to make it all comfortable for the students?"
As adult health care professionals, we face all kinds of things that are uncomfortable. (Moral, ethical, legal dilemmas, religious differences, death, pain, harassment, abuse, inappropriate use of resources, waste and fraud, just to name a few.) If we can't deal with those things, we are ineffective and useless in our jobs, which ultimately harms our patients and weakens our profession.
It is not the instructor's job to make the student comfortable. It is the student's job to learn to deal with discomfort in a way that does not interfere with the job at hand.
It's all part of adulthood and professionalism.
Oh! Trust me, I agree with every word you said, what I meant was that it was up to the professor's discretion to accommodate the student's needs/wants, meaning: he is in no OBLIGATION to do so...
I understand the choice to be a Vegan is a moral one, a disdain to the exploitation of animals in anyway shape or form such as, eating meat, drinking milk, cheese or even wearing leather shoes. This is a noble thing and I would not ever try to dissuade you to think otherwise but let me pose a question to you.
As a medical person such as an EMT or nurse, how many times a day do you think you will administer drugs to many people? In case you have not considered this, chances are 10 out of 10 that those drugs were tested on animals prior to clinical trials. This is a sad reality but it is a necessary one to ensure the safety of a drug. Consider again the magnitude of peoples lives that have been saved by our furry little friends who were called to duty.
Just like the use of animals in the betterment of mankind in the pharma industry, many school systems feel that hands on dissection of animal organs will make better medical professionals of its students and in return, lives will be saved.
I have spoken to pharma people concerning this subject and they assured me that the animals are treated in the most humane way possible. After all, many scientist are animal lover too, but this is a necessary downside for the progression of medicine and the greater good.
I don't know if any of this helps with your moral dilemma, but maybe it might.
I am very interested in what you decided to do about your professor sarailyse. I am sorry that his comments sounded inappropriate and rude. I am not a vegetarian and I don't have any ethical issues dissecting animals so I have no idea how you feel and I am not about to guess. I do think that you should reconsider the lab and drop it if you are not comfortable with the class procedures. If you feel that you can go into nursing without the benefit of physical anatomy education than go for it. Hope it worked out and good luck to you.
I know this is old, but I started my cat dissection today. I know this might not make it any better for you Sara, but my prof said our cats were from the ASPCA. The cats that get euthanized that no one wants. Made me wonder what happens to the other animals that get euthanized.
I remember the cat that my table dissected in A & P back in 1976. He was a big orange tabby that we named Morris, after an advertisement on TV at the time. The State of Indiana had a law making it illegal, except for Medical Students, to dissect a human cadaver. Yes, we could handle body parts, such as a skeleton, but not the whole thing. therefore, "Morris" did a yeoman's job of educating us on A & P, even though he was dead. Morris might have otherwise ended up as just another dead cat at the landfill after being euthanized. Well done, Morris. Sorry that you had to die because of the government. I'll give my cats a treat in your name, good buddy!
I think it's hilarious! Suggest you shed some layers of "sensitivity" and start learning to laugh at yourself. If you're so against animal dissection in the interest of learning how bodies work so you can later help save them, you may need to consider a career shift. People aren't made of tofu.
It's comments like these that make me kind of wonder.....after years of animal testing it's a shame we haven't come up with a way to cure stupidity.
There has been a lot of disrespect on this thread towards the OP. Is it so hard for people to get into their thick heads that some of us are ethically opposed to vivisection? That some of us feel empathy for these poor animals we are given no choice at all? This is not the dark ages....we have the technology to teach people about anatomy without resorting to dark age techniques.
It's comments like these that make me kind of wonder.....after years of animal testing it's a shame we haven't come up with a way to cure stupidity.
There has been a lot of disrespect on this thread towards the OP. Is it so hard for people to get into their thick heads that some of us are ethically opposed to vivisection? That some of us feel empathy for these poor animals we are given no choice at all? This is not the dark ages....we have the technology to teach people about anatomy without resorting to dark age techniques.
Thick heads?? I would venture to guess that all of us on this board are "ethically opposed to vivisection," which is an entirely different thing than dissection. I felt plenty of empathy for "my" cat in anatomy lab, but all the empathy in the world wasn't going to bring him back to life; neither I nor anyone connected with the university had done anything to bring about his death; and I was v. appreciative of the wonderful learning opportunity he provided. Having had that experience, I'm pretty sure that the "dark age technique" in which I participated was a much more valuable learning experience for me than some fancy high-tech substitute would have been.
Thick heads?? I would venture to guess that all of us on this board are "ethically opposed to vivisection," which is an entirely different thing than dissection. I felt plenty of empathy for "my" cat in anatomy lab, but all the empathy in the world wasn't going to bring him back to life; neither I nor anyone connected with the university had done anything to bring about his death; and I was v. appreciative of the wonderful learning opportunity he provided. Having had that experience, I'm pretty sure that the "dark age technique" in which I participated was a much more valuable learning experience for me than some fancy high-tech substitute would have been.
Yes I'm sure that wonderful learning experience helped you so much in nursing What a crock. Unless your going to be a surgeon I can hardly see how forcing someone to do something they clearly don't want to do like dissecting an animal can give you anything other than a morbid experience. And I strongly disagree that high tech substitutes are less valuable than dissecting some poor animal.
The OP has some pretty strong values that are quite similar to my own. Lucky for me my university accepts different values and beliefs and offers alternatives.
As for the silly arguments 'but your a nurse, you give patients products that are tested on animals yeah yeah' ok that's true and it can be challenging at times. But I refuse to wear any medical company representatives lanyards, pens or any of their other stuff. If any educational videos show any vivisection, animal testing I quietly walk out the room. I
Someone else said on this thread that as a nurse you'll see far worse. This argument doesn't wash with me given my specialty. In fact after starting out as an OR nurse I gave up eating meat.
No one should be ridiculed for their personel values and the professors response certainly did this.
Oh and the thick heads comment was directed at people telling the OP they shouldn't be a nurse because they don't want to dissect an animal.
What a crock. Unless your going to be a surgeon I can hardly see how forcing someone to do something they clearly don't want to do like dissecting an animal can give you anything other than a morbid experience. And I strongly disagree that high tech substitutes are less valuable than dissecting some poor animal.
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