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toomuchbaloney said:

Do you think Vance would be a good president?  Do you think he would follow the Project 2025 plan and Trump's tariff scheme, or would he forge a new pathway?  

Forget P2025. Time to look at Project Esther, if it exists. Think of it as threat assessment.

Meanwhile, my father grew up as a West Virginia hillbilly. If Vance is a hillbilly, then he's forgotten where he came from.

Will Vance be a good president? Good for whom? Peter Thiel? Hillbillies? Sex traffickers? The oil industry?

On the other hand. Wouldn't it make him the first POTUS with a non-European spouse?

Interesting needle to thread. I wonder what he's going to do.

This theoretical new path isn't not looking so good, from my POV. It doesn't seem to be leading anywhere I want to be. So, no thanks. 4 No votes.

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toomuchbaloney said:

Do you think Vance would be a good president?  Do you think he would follow the Project 2025 plan and Trump's tariff scheme, or would he forge a new pathway?  

Absolutely not.  But I'd rather get rid of Trump.

Vance is a hard one to read since he once called Trump Hitler, but went with the flow of the Republican Party and became a MAGA.  So his personal style and agenda isn't clear.  I don't think he'd want to alienate his MAGA base and doesn't mind lying, so it probably would be more of the same for a while.  But I don't like to go into "what if" scenarios much.  For now we're stuck with Trump.

Beerman said:

Let's be honest....you would say the same about anyone with a R after their name.

Yes, it's not just Vance but the current crop of Republicans have lost their way all around the country.  So anyone with "a R after their name" is a no from me.  I can't speak for whom you addressed.  

Not that Democrats aren't trying to find themselves and aren't weak themselves.  But I'm more aligned with them.  

In other 47 news:

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About half a year on from Inauguration Day, many young people have changed their minds on Trump. It looks more like many young voters gave him the benefit of the doubt when he took office, but their evaluations of him quickly started to sink. Among Americans ages 18-29, his job approval rating has fallen from a high of 55% just after he was inaugurated to 28% now. That means that half of his former approvers now disapprove. In percentage-point terms, the size of that drop is more than double what we've seen in any other age group.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/young-people-trumps-job-handling-cbs-news-analysis/

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It's hard to want to vote for people who are giving their congressional authority to the crazy old guy who is dismantling the republic and trashing the economy.  They don't seem to have anyone's interests in mind beyond Trump's.  

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GrumpyRN said:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/jd-vance-claims-uk-hasn't-fought-a-war-in-40-years-and-everyone-says-the-same-thing-390371/

https://news.sky.com/story/jd-vance-even-less-popular-with-brits-than-donald-trump-new-polls-shows-13335490

 

The evidence suggests that Trump voters don't really care about lying, corruption, or incompetence in their political leadership.  The evidence suggests that republican voters are motivated by something else.  They seem to be happy to believe nonsense if Trump said it and if they have a sense that the nonsense might upset a liberal.  For example, they believed that Trump is a brilliant business man and that immigrants were eating cats and dogs simply because Trump told them those things. Now they are willing to entertain the idea that Obama committed treason by allowing the FBI to investigate the ways that the Russians were interacting with an American businessman running for office.  

It's interesting that Trump's supporters can be so easily distracted by ideas and claims that have no publicly available evidence.  They look away from the abundant evidence that Trump was a co-conspirator in the sex trafficking to imagine that Obama was treasonous.  They know that Trump gave his friends Jeff and Ghis access to lots of pretty young girls through his beauty pageants and modeling agencies and his "world class" resort spas, but they prefer to let the crazy old rapist distract them with ridiculous claims about the black president.  

Yes. Vance isn't honest or honorable.  Republican voters aren't really motivated by honor or honesty.  They do seem to be very motivated by lies and bigotry

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GrumpyRN said:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/jd-vance-claims-uk-hasn't-fought-a-war-in-40-years-and-everyone-says-the-same-thing-390371/

https://news.sky.com/story/jd-vance-even-less-popular-with-brits-than-donald-trump-new-polls-shows-13335490

 

It's not uncommon for a VP to poll below a President.  Harris consistently polled lower than Biden.  

VPs historically, I don't think are popular people especially this early on as the new President takes center stage.

Back in March Vance's popularity polls were perhaps the worst of any VP.  Although as people became very concerned about the border and Fox News campaigned for Republicans Harris became very unpopular.

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Vance's favorability is worse than Harris's at the same two-month mark and perhaps worse than any new vice president in the history of polling. His Real Clear Politics favorable-unfavorable rating is 41.7 percent-44.8 percent, a slightly worse net favorable rating (-3.1 percentage points) than Donald Trump's (-0.9). When looking only at March polling—sampled after his infamous Oval Office hectoring of Ukraine's president—he's even more underwater: 42.4 percent-48.0 percent. 

Vice presidents, while rarely public opinion rockstars, typically begin with a bit more goodwill from the public.  

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2025/03/21/j-d-vance-is-the-most-disliked-new-vice-president-in-history/

He still polls better against a number of prominent Democrats.  Also not the undecideds might again decide the election in 2028.  But that's still too far out.  Much can happen to change the tide either direction.

https://emersoncollegepolling.com/July-2025-national-poll/

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July 2025 NATIONAL POLL

Hypothetical 2028 General Election Matchups

Buttigieg (D)  42 Vance (R) 44 Undecided 13%

AOC (D) 41 Vance (R) 44  Undecided 15

Newsom (D) 42 Vance (R) 45 Undecided13%

 

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Tweety said:

It's not uncommon for a VP to poll below a President.  Harris consistently polled lower than Biden.  

VPs historically, I don't think are popular people especially this early on as the new President takes center stage.

Back in March Vance's popularity polls were perhaps the worst of any VP.  Although as people became very concerned about the border and Fox News campaigned for Republicans Harris became very unpopular.

https://washingtonmonthly.com/2025/03/21/j-d-vance-is-the-most-disliked-new-vice-president-in-history/

He still polls better against a number of prominent Democrats.  Also not the undecideds might again decide the election in 2028.  But that's still too far out.  Much can happen to change the tide either direction.

https://emersoncollegepolling.com/July-2025-national-poll/

 

Republicans are demonstrating right now that they don't really believe in free and fair elections.  

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toomuchbaloney said:

Republicans are demonstrating right now that they don't really believe in free and fair elections.  

How so? 

They didn't believe when Trump lost in 2020.  But when he won it was because "he won the electoral college and the popular vote" in a free and fair election.  Funny how that works.

 

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Tweety said:

How so? 

They didn't believe when Trump lost in 2020.  But when he won it was because "he won the electoral college and the popular vote" in a free and fair election.  Funny how that works.

 

Conservatives have a long history of suppressing votes and restricting voter rights in the USA. Currently, Texas is prepared to gerrymander another 5 congressional seats for Republicans for no reason other than Trump believes they are entitled.  It's important for Republicans to maintain control of the House in order to make certain that they can execute the Project 2025 plans for determining election results, especially in response to a challenge.  

This republic is in deep trouble.  

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Tweety said:

That's the "go to" with some people: he won the popular vote and won the election.  So obviously despite fear mongering about a "fascist regime" he became President.  That is continually thrown in our face.

But it was close.  Almost half of voters considered him a fascist and just because he won the popular vote and the election does't mean they didn't think so.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/donald-trump-fascist-concerns-poll/story?id=115083795

People can make all kinds of claims and comparisons about whether or not we are in a fascist regime or that he's leading us towards one.  I think that might be a fair discussion without the left fear mongering things that won't happen or the right saying "well he won the election and the popular vote and this is what people want".  Somewhere in the murk there might be something to see.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-trumps-rhetoric-compares-to-historic-fascist-language

https://spectrejournal.com/trump-fascism-and-the-authoritarian-turn/

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2025/5/4/no-trump-is-not-a-fascist-he-is-a-hypercapitalist-and-just-as-dangerous

Half the people consider him a fascist.  That coincides with that half didn't vote for him.  

But I'd bet a paycheck if you walked up to 100 of those people, or anyone really, on the street and asked them to define what a fascist is, 90 of them wouldn't be able to string together a coherent sentence.

It's just a term we've all heard that the Trump-haters will go along with in describing him.  They don't really even know what it means.

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Beerman said:

Half the people consider him a fascist.  That coincides with that half didn't vote for him.  

But I'd bet a paycheck if you walked up to 100 of those people, or anyone really, on the street and asked them to define what a fascist is, 90 of them wouldn't be able to string together a coherent sentence.

It's just a term we've all heard that the Trump-haters will go along with in describing him.  They don't really even know what it means.

Mostly agree but there have also been some scholarly and intelligent journalistic articles about the comparisons of Trump to fascism.  I might have posted them before and I won't again as you surely wouldn't consider them.

I don't think I've ever said that Trump is a fascist but I've tried to understand how this idea came about, same as with the comparisons to Nazism (I.e. J D Vance liking him to Hitler) and where we disagree is that it's not just a term that Trump haters made up to make him look bad. (to do a tit for tat, kind of like the right throwing out "communist" or "socialist" as a dirty word and ask 90 people they would fumble through it, but it has some basis in some intelligent ideas worth looking into.)

 I will agree that Trump haters use it to degrade him and what he's doing and it's a lot of rhetoric from people that don't understand what they are saying.  Heck Americans can't even locate Washington DC on a map.  We are really stupid.

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 I believe that Trump would act as fully-fledged fascist if he could. The question is: will the American people let him do so? He has, in fact, enacted fascist-lite policies to the extent that his power allowed.

https://www.durham.ac.uk/research/current/thought-leadership/2024/10/is-trump-a-fascist/

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