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toomuchbaloney said:

Conservatives have a long history of suppressing votes and restricting voter rights in the USA. Currently, Texas is prepared to gerrymander another 5 congressional seats for Republicans for no reason other than Trump believes they are entitled.  It's important for Republicans to maintain control of the House in order to make certain that they can execute the Project 2025 plans for determining election results, especially in response to a challenge.  

This republic is in deep trouble.  

This re-districting in Texas because Trump says so (and lied and said it was because he won by the largest margin in Texas history (that belongs to FDR)) really bothers me.  Districts aren't based on Presidential elections but the 10 year census.  But it's so open and out there and a blatant disregard for decency and the American people is baffles me.  He has hinted in allowing federal agents to arrest the Democrats that fled.  

 California is going to do the same thing and try to get five more seats but the Republicans there aren't having it.  Funny how that works.

 

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Tweety said:

This re-districting in Texas because Trump says so (and lied and said it was because he won by the largest margin in Texas history (that belongs to FDR)) really bothers me.  Districts aren't based on Presidential elections but the 10 year census.  But it's so open and out there and a blatant disregard for decency and the American people is baffles me.  He has hinted in allowing federal agents to arrest the Democrats that fled.  

 California is going to do the same thing and try to get five more seats but the Republicans there aren't having it.  Funny how that works.

 

Unfortunately not all states can gerrymander for partisan purposes. California can't do what Texas is doing because its redistricting process is specifically designed to prevent partisan gerrymandering. It's part of the state Constitution that was created through a ballot process, so changing the state Constitution to allow partisan gerrymandering would have to be put to a vote again. 

Most of the states that have redistricting by the legislature are red states, so they are easily gerrymandered if both Governor and legislature are same party.

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Liberals don't have a problem defining fascism.  That term is used to correctly describe the current right wing extremism that is in control of the federal government.  The meaning of fascism is important to understand, especially since many of those who support fascists have been prone to calling any opposition to the right wing extremist ideas both socialist and communist.  Wikipedia has a serviceable definition of fascism that we could start with.  Britannica has a larger discussion of the subject .  There are a number of good books on the subject.  Madeline Albright wrote one, it's literally a warning.  We can, together, embrace the meaning of fascism and then imagine what it means to be an individual member of a fascist movement.  

This post is a demonstration that, unlike the folks who have thrown around the terms socialist and communist for years to describe people who aren't conservative, we actually know what the words mean when we use them to describe current conservative leadership. We use the term because it is descriptive, not because we're trying to hurt feelings.   Confusion and chaos are not the objective of the opposition to the fascists. Confusion and chaos are the objective of the right wing extremists.  That's what both history and current events tell us.  

 

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mtmkjr said:

Unfortunately not all states can gerrymander for partisan purposes. California can't do what Texas is doing because its redistricting process is specifically designed to prevent partisan gerrymandering. It's part of the state Constitution that was created through a ballot process, so changing the state Constitution to allow partisan gerrymandering would have to be put to a vote again. 

Most of the states that have redistricting by the legislature are red states, so they are easily gerrymandered if both Governor and legislature are same party.

Correct.  Liberals have historically been more interested in preserving the elements of free and fair elections while conservatives have historically tried in many ways to restrict and limit voting rights for some people.  

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Beerman said:

Half the people consider him a fascist.  That coincides with that half didn't vote for him.  

But I'd bet a paycheck if you walked up to 100 of those people, or anyone really, on the street and asked them to define what a fascist is, 90 of them wouldn't be able to string together a coherent sentence.

It's just a term we've all heard that the Trump-haters will go along with in describing him.  They don't really even know what it means.

The danger comes from the fact that many of his followers don't recognize his authoritarian/fascist actions, not because they  can't define the terms, but because they're focused on achieving their own political objectives. They view his actions simply as a means to an end, and seem unwilling to see the bigger picture.

Those on the opposing side, are feeling the impact of these actions, so they're more likely to recognize and sound the alarm about potential threats to democratic norms even if most can't define fascism, they know that an authoritarian government is no good, it's not what we value and justifiably want to protect.

The checks and balances of our Constitution force both sides to more broadly consider of the impact of political power beyond their own interests. 

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Tweety said:

This re-districting in Texas because Trump says so (and lied and said it was because he won by the largest margin in Texas history (that belongs to FDR)) really bothers me.  Districts aren't based on Presidential elections but the 10 year census.  But it's so open and out there and a blatant disregard for decency and the American people is baffles me.  He has hinted in allowing federal agents to arrest the Democrats that fled.  

 California is going to do the same thing and try to get five more seats but the Republicans there aren't having it.  Funny how that works.

 

Abbott in Texas says what they're doing is legal.

I haven't done any research to have an opinion on that.   Have you?

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mtmkjr said:

The danger comes from the fact that many of his followers don't recognize his authoritarian/fascist actions, not because they  can't define the terms, but because they're focused on achieving their own political objectives. They view his actions simply as a means to an end, and seem unwilling to see the bigger picture.

Those on the opposing side, are feeling the impact of these actions, so they're more likely to recognize and sound the alarm about potential threats to democratic norms even if most can't define fascism, they know that an authoritarian government is no good, it's not what we value and justifiably want to protect.

 

Meh....both sides do this.  Everyone is more tolerant and unwilling to consider the big picture when it's their guys doing whatever needs to be done to get what they want.

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mtmkjr said:

Unfortunately not all states can gerrymander for partisan purposes. California can't do what Texas is doing because its redistricting process is specifically designed to prevent partisan gerrymandering. It's part of the state Constitution that was created through a ballot process, so changing the state Constitution to allow partisan gerrymandering would have to be put to a vote again. 

Most of the states that have redistricting by the legislature are red states, so they are easily gerrymandered if both Governor and legislature are same party.

 

Doesn't mean they won't try:

Quote

Democrats in the House and the state Legislature are coalescing around a plan to draw a half-dozen Republican incumbents into oblivion — and persuade California voters to approve the new congressional maps before next year's midterms. Party leaders are closely tracking the dual-track developments in which lawmakers in Texas and California are moving, in partisan parallel, to shore up their respective party's House majorities. California Republicans are casting about for a way to avoid extinction.

https://www.politico.com/news/2025/08/04/california-fires-back-at-texas-redistricting-00493314?nid=0000018f-3124-de07-a98f-3be4d1400000&nname=politico-toplines&nrid=865cc606-0d4c-43ac-88c2-2e7636c7f8d6

Seems like there has to be a better way.

There's a lawsuit underway that includes where I live on a state level.  But also for a while our very blue neighborhood was gerrymandered to be represented by a republican in the national congress.  From what I remember they lost a suit and we now have a Democrat in congress in Washington.

https://www.wtsp.com/article/news/politics/trial-racial-gerrymandering-tampa-bay-senate-district/67-90323939-ff0b-451d-bf34-dd08ea909bd1

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Nah. It's clearly not a both sides thing when it comes to voting rights in this country. The media is good at trying to create balance rather than just report reality and facts.  

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Beerman said:

Abbott in Texas says what they're doing is legal.

I haven't done any research to have an opinion on that.   Have you?

Yes I have so I could form the opinion I posted, and I'm sure it's legal.  Just because it's legal doesn't mean it's the moral or decent thing to do.  

Districts must be redrawn with every census.  But I presume Texas is one of the states that it can be done anytime.

I'll just repeat what I said "it's so open and out there and a blatant disregard for decency and the American people it baffles me."

I really don't think the American people approve of what's going on in Texas but that's just a feeling but I have a low opinion on American intelligence and being informed thinkers.

Trump: let's redraw districts because I won Texas and other states.  Texas:  Sure, no problem.

Clearly, Trump et al are worried they are going to lose the House and making power grabs to do what they can to create more Republican seats.  I guess that politics.  Prior to this in June polls were showing Abbot and Trump's approval ratings in Texas falling.  

I'm sure like here in Florida some of the redraws will be challenged in court, but they know like here the mid-terms will be here before it's settled or even reaches the courts.  The court case in my neighborhood that started this June is about a gerrymander in 2022.  

 

 

 

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Beerman said:

Meh....both sides do this.  Everyone is more tolerant and unwilling to consider the big picture when it's their guys doing whatever needs to be done to get what they want.

No, they don't. 

But thank you for proving my point 

I'm not actually the other side. I've always been independently conservative. The wave of anti-immigration sentiment drove me away.

I would be just as appalled if there were a Trump style Democrat bulldozing a liberal agenda, increasing authority while dismantling the checks and balances I mentioned earlier.

So again I agree with TMB,  it's not a both sides thing. 

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mtmkjr said:

No, they don't. 

But thank you for proving my point 

I'm not actually the other side. I've always been independently conservative. The wave of anti-immigration sentiment drove me away.

I would be just as appalled if there were a Trump style Democrat bulldozing a liberal agenda, increasing authority while dismantling the checks and balances I mentioned earlier.

So again I agree with TMB,  it's not a both sides thing. 

Sure....

It's funny you bring up immigration in the same post you try to claim that democrats always follow the law and constitution.

BTW, some members here over the course of several years and thousands of posts have never acknowledged the Democrats doing anything wrong, ever.

You maybe want to consider that before agreeing with anyone.

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