School Shootings

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Sad that we may need a category for this.

Another school shooting in NoCal.

Thinking of NoCalMimi and hoping she's okay.

I hear you. I feel the same as you.

I also know that the first day for hunting season is an unofficial holiday in the high schools around me. I know multiple 4H and other youth programs that offer shooting competitions for high schoolers. I know parents that are responsible gun owners and that are trying to teach their children to be the same. But kids are kids and I feel like there are probably a lot more high schoolers illegally carrying into schools that haven't got caught yet.

I am all for stronger background checks and required training for firearms. I am whole heartedly against arming my teachers for the reasons Poodles put above.

I want to be out too, but I feel like we all need to keep having these conversation and sharing what we see on the news with each other and those around us so that way this problem isn't swept under the rug again

I will.

Just not here.

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Specializes in IMC, school nursing.
Stop. Are you kidding me???

You're defending this?

Not defending, putting the shoe on the other foot, something our society has forgotten; why we can't compromise. I feel many of the students participating in the walk out are doing it for THIS reason, not the gun control issue. The adults are failing, we need to acknowledge this aspect of the problem, otherwise it will continue.

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.
Did we talk about the TEACHER who fired a gun in his classroom? Luckily it was empty. Again, I don't know what the solution is, but I can tell you this: there are certain teachers that if you arm them I will feel LESS safe. Meaning, they are a ticking time bomb, stressed, underpaid, overworked, dealing with rude teenagers...

From here: Ready, Fire, Aim: The Science Behind Police Shooting Bystanders | TIME.com

"According to a 2008 RAND Corporation study evaluating the New York Police Department's firearm training, between 1998 and 2006, the average hit rate during gunfights was just 18 percent. When suspects did not return fire, police officers hit their targets 30 percent of the time."

"The data show what any police officer who has ever been involved in a shooting can tell you–firing accurately in a stressful situation is extremely hard. In an article for TIME last year, Amanda Ripley looked what happens in the brain and body when shots are fired. The brain stem sends out signals that cause blood vessels to constrict and hormones to surge. Studies have shown that eyesight becomes narrower (literally tunnel vision) under such conditions. People who have been in gunfights describe hearing very little and perceive time slowing down. Amid this chaos, as police officers have to make difficult, split-second decisions, humans can lose motor skills as the body reverts to basic fight or flight instincts."

I don't know. I really don't. Maybe arming some teachers would be a good idea. I just don't know how more guns IN SCHOOLS would be a good idea. We aren't a war-torn country for crying out loud. I feel instead of just arming them they would need a rigorous training, psych eval., even more training. Ugh.

I don't disagree with the article. One thing I do know...continuing on with the "This is a gun free zone sign" isn't the solution. Maybe put up an additional sign, "Really! No guns please."

Another thing...you can't walk onto a plane with a gun...not so in our schools.

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Specializes in school nursing, ortho, trauma.

So the question was posed as to where / how are they getting these guns? Some legally i'd imagine. If memory served the Newtown shooter had assistance from his own mother in obtaining firearms legally and she took him shooting as it was an activity that he liked to do- then again this may have been tabloid fodder. Then again, if you'd like to obtain a gun illegally, I am positive that if you went into several of the bad parts of some of the cities within a 20 minute drive from my own home, you could be well outfitted in minutes if you have cash in hand.

Laws are a great start, but in my very humble opinion the laws need to be the same across the board nationwide.

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Specializes in IMC, school nursing.
So the question was posed as to where / how are they getting these guns? Some legally i'd imagine. If memory served the Newtown shooter had assistance from his own mother in obtaining firearms legally and she took him shooting as it was an activity that he liked to do- then again this may have been tabloid fodder. Then again, if you'd like to obtain a gun illegally, I am positive that if you went into several of the bad parts of some of the cities within a 20 minute drive from my own home, you could be well outfitted in minutes if you have cash in hand.

Laws are a great start, but in my very humble opinion the laws need to be the same across the board nationwide.

Laws are made to be broken, it is our human (sinful) nature. We need to return to the better attributes of our past that were thrown out with the bad. Fathers are Homer Simpson, look at any sitcom. It has been shown that every shooter had a father issue, either none in the home or an absent one. We need parents available, including the unpopular notion of stay at home parent. We need to return to clear cut right and wrong, a moral foundation. This is so anti-academia. Sorry, they created the problem, maybe that is why it is coming home to roost where it was birthed.

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Laws are made to be broken, it is our human (sinful) nature. We need to return to the better attributes of our past that were thrown out with the bad. Fathers are Homer Simpson, look at any sitcom. It has been shown that every shooter had a father issue, either none in the home or an absent one. We need parents available, including the unpopular notion of stay at home parent. We need to return to clear cut right and wrong, a moral foundation. This is so anti-academia. Sorry, they created the problem, maybe that is why it is coming home to roost where it was birthed.

Since when a discussion about an issue affecting people of all backgrounds becomes a religious problem?

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Specializes in IMC, school nursing.
Since when a discussion about an issue affecting people of all backgrounds becomes a religious problem?

Where did I say anything about religion? I realize that sin may not be a word you are comfortable with, but check out music from the '70's and '80's, it was a pretty popular word. The religious connotation comes from within you.

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Where did I say anything about religion? I realize that sin may not be a word you are comfortable with, but check out music from the '70's and '80's, it was a pretty popular word. The religious connotation comes from within you.

I did not grow up in America. I don't know anything about music at that period. I only know that the word sin is not taken lightly outside Abrahamic religions. Outside Islam and Christianity, human nature is a mixed bag with a tendency towards altruism. Otherwise, I don't know how much more shooting news we are going to receive daily.

Dharmic religions don't believe in sin. At least I am not aware of that.

Despite what has happened lately, I believe in humanity. If people's nature is as wicked as your faith describes, I don't think laws can stop them.

As a nurse, you perhaps know about compassion more than I do. Nurturing compassion and empathy in people may help prevent turning them into violent blood-thirst shooters.

I don't think teaching children how evil their nature inherently is and scare them with punishment helps much.

This is just my personal view as someone who views human nature in positive light.

What do you think?

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Where did I say anything about religion? I realize that sin may not be a word you are comfortable with, but check out music from the '70's and '80's, it was a pretty popular word. The religious connotation comes from within you.

Sin: an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law.

The definition of sin has religious connotation (therefore making it denotation).

Not to mention that it is so widely associated with religion, it would be difficult to believe that anyone who used it did not have a religious undertone.

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This discussion seems to be getting very heated as the "gun discussion" usually does. Here's the bottom line: kids are scared. One will argue it's a gun problem. Another will argue it's a mental health problem. Yet another will argue its a societal problem. Maybe it's all of it. Some people have guns without proper training or instruction on how to safely store them to keep them away from children--that's an issue. A lot of people are suffering from severe mental health issues and do not have the resources to get the help they need OR they are unwilling to get the help early on because of the stigma around mental health--that's an issue. We live in a country where we're more afraid of our kid seeing a boob than a bomb (in tv, movies, video games, etc) so violence is normalized early on--that's an issue.

It's scary. It's scary to be in a school and wondering if there's a kid walking the halls who will snap. It's scary to go online or turn on the tv and be bombarded with nonstop details on the latest shooting, the latest shooter, the way the latest shooter shot up the latest school to get the most deaths. It's scary to hear kids talk about school shootings and have real fear that they may be next. Somethings gotta give. There's got to be some sort of compromise ON BOTH SIDES of the political spectrum so that we can all agree and vote on a MULTITUDE of laws to help begin fixing many issues. There isn't ever going to be one thing that fixes it all. We can't just take all the guns away or fix the mental health crisis overnight or kumbaya everyone into loving each other.

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.

Here's my last post on this thread...likely to please many...school safety and security is top priority until such time as-fill in your favorite viewpoint about guns future-but until then each and every campus should have the ability to defend it's children with swift and lethal force against any and all deadly threats. End of story.

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Here's my last post on this thread...likely to please many...school safety and security is top priority until such time as-fill in your favorite viewpoint about guns future-but until then each and every campus should have the ability to defend it's children with swift and lethal force against any and all deadly threats. End of story.

I can agree with that. What you said is kinda broad, but I know what you meant from your past posts.

Some folks would say if we harden schools, then shooters will move to softer targets (ex. a school bus).

Yet others would say if we restrict access to certain firearms, then criminals will just obtain them illegally.

Though both arguments use the exact same logic, many people would not agree with both. People pick and choose when to follow logic depending on their perspective or motivations.

I'd like to see a serious federal investment and push for objective private research into the issue (CDC, NIH grants). However a problem we face is the conflicts of interest occuring at the federal level wind up politicizing an issue and we get nowhere. Regular Americans pay the price.

Imagine if objective research were absent from nursing practice. We'd be going around spouting what we think is best, acting on opinion, and patients would pay the price as the profession failed to advance.

So again, I sure wish we'd collectively apply that same logic to solve other real problems.

And olddude: please don't completely stop posting in the thread, as you convey an important perspective that makes us think.

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