Is the RN--->BSN push a clever way to get older nurses out of the way

[Nola009]

As in certain "Baby Boomers" who wont retire? Wont we NEED a faster RN producing mechanism (hello again, ADN programs!) in order to provide enough nurses to care for this huge group of people due to retire soon?? Just wondering...

[traumaRUs, MSN, APRN]

@cinlou....lol. Had to laugh at your statement that ADN grads might be a Little rough around the edges." I'm one of those NAs, LPN, ADN, MSN, etc nurses. Prim still "rough around the edges". Doubt I change anytime soon...lol

great discussion...

[nursel56]

The degree debate usually excludes stakeholders who are active where the rubber hits the road. The law. These stakeholders are only too happy to watch nurses tear themselves to shreds and send lobbyists to represent their interests in the only arena that will truly end the debate, the legal arena.

Hospital and long-term care facility interests have blocked progress in the state legislatures and in some cases championed new legislation that assures state boards of nursing will never have the audacity to unilaterally change education requirements for nurses again in the states where there was a hard push for BSN entry-to-practice laws.

This indicates that "patient outcomes" framed the way nurses frame it doesn't have much to do with their decisions. As has been said, for decades the majority of the RN workforce consisted of ADNs, and you heard no clamoring for the BSN from anyone other than those who sponsored the effort in the first place.

[cinlou, BSN, MSN, RN]

I am not even sure how to respond to the statements that ADN nurses are less professional and from a "lower" working class and in the obtaining a BSN somehow refines ones "class".

I am rendered speechless and that is hard to do.

Esme, I hear you, I had to think about that for a bit which is why I spoke of perception and changing that perception in the classroom through role modeling. Keep in mind I teach in the 5th poorest county in the United States and I am trying to help improve the quality of life in our community through education. Here in this area there is a high poor working class, and the behavior of the LPN and ADN are really no different. I do think that with anyone adding experience and education helps us to refine ourselves to our choosing and I do not think it matters the degree level as to an individuals ability to act professional. I have known many a Doctor that I would Not describe as being or acting professional.

[cinlou, BSN, MSN, RN]

@cinlou....lol. Had to laugh at your statement that ADN grads might be a Little rough around the edges." I'm one of those NAs, LPN, ADN, MSN, etc nurses. Prim still "rough around the edges". Doubt I change anytime soon...lol

great discussion...

Thanks, I was giggling while I wrote it. It looks like you and I have similar backgrounds so being Prim in the ER is not something we can afford to do on a regular basis. I do think one learns to refine SOME of our behavior through education and broadening our perspectives.

[tokmom, BSN, RN]

Also by your statement we should make the minimum entry required to become RN the DNP degree. That way there would be a bigger barrier to entry hence more pay. This point of yours looks down on the many experiences RN that don't have a BSN, but know more sometimes that some MDs.

Can I ask how many years of experience you have as a nurse?

To say that nurses know more than doctors is just a bit over the top. Do we know more about the patient? Of course we do, because we spend the most time with them. However, to say a normal staff nurse is smarter than an MD is a bit presumptuous. I'm not saying I'm ignorant. I can be in a conversation or read a summary and know pretty much what the diagnosis "might" be. But to say I'm smarter than an MD is simply not the truth.

[tokmom, BSN, RN]

This has been a very interesting thread. I do say we have hit upon most, if not all hot topics on AN, such as ADN vs BSN, older vs younger nurses, for profit vs non profit.

[nursel56]

I agree. I've heard too many coded, covert references to social class from administration and management regarding the push for BSN degrees, so I have reason to believe the preference is class-based.

When referring to students of community colleges and vocational schools, I've heard the following biased statements: "Those students live in the moment." "They're unprepared to handle more rigorous coursework." "They're first generation students." "Maybe their backgrounds and unsupportive families hindered them from going to school longer."

Whaddya know? The community college system is where most ASN-degreed nurses are educated. It's classism under the mendacious guise of 'professionalism.'

I agree! And have to admit it angers me to no end when someone uses phrases like "the BSN nurses have a certain polish", and similar remarks as a valid reason to get the BSN. You can go to a 7-week Charm School course if that's where your values lie, lol.

[applewhitern, BSN, RN]

Well, I am glad I look "polished" while I clean stool, dress decubitus, strip the bed and change the linens, then proceed to do it all over again when the GI bleeder vomits everywhere. I would sure hate to not have that air of BSN sophistication about me; someone might think I am low-class.

[kbrn2002, ADN, RN]

We have probably all seen the numerous ADN VS BSN VS....whatever credentials are being argued threads. There are some truths on all sides, as is the case with most arguments. There are also some big piles of the brown stuff on all sides, as is the case with most arguments.

I think this will be a discussion that continues to happen for a long time. The simple truth as I see it is that ADN programs aren't going away anytime soon. That would require schools revamping programs if not eliminating them and I don't see all the ADN schools that make a boat load of money giving that up without a fight.

Employers will continue to make their hiring preferences based on availability of candidates. The one hospital in our area that had a policy to hire BSN only changed that in less than a year, probably because in a 150 mile radius we have only one BSN program that graduates one class a year and four programs that graduate a couple classes a year.

There are many regional differences, as well as urban vs rural settings that impact the education level of local nurses.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

I am not even sure how to respond to the statements that ADN nurses are less professional and from a "lower" working class and in the obtaining a BSN somehow refines ones "class".

I am rendered speechless and that is hard to do.

I very much agree that there is that perception among nursing mangaers and administration in many cases. Not saying it's true, but that many people think it is.

[cinlou, BSN, MSN, RN]

Well, I am glad I look "polished" while I clean stool, dress decubitus, strip the bed and change the linens, then proceed to do it all over again when the GI bleeder vomits everywhere. I would sure hate to not have that air of BSN sophistication about me; someone might think I am low-class.

Now we all knew when we started this conversation it was going to be based on BS :)

[PMFB-RN, RN]

However, to say a normal staff nurse is smarter than an MD is a bit presumptuous.

I have never noticed the average physicians as being smarter than the average nurse.