Diploma nurses are worthless?!

[stephdRN]

I didn't expect to be insulted and frowned upon during my very FIRST interview, but that is exactly what happened. This was an interview for a new-grad position and one I was well prepared for and more than qualified to take on. But I wasn't prepared for THIS. At first they weren't even expecting me to be there because HR forgot to tell them, that should have been the first warning flag.

Initially I'm being asked all the normal questions and given "what would you do?" scenarios. The woman tells me I did well and answered what they're looking for. Well of course I did! I passed the NCLEX first try and I'm appropriately trained, right? WRONG. When the topic of my education came up and she learned that I was a diploma graduate, the interview took a 360. She informed me that diploma nurses were only "techs" in the nursing world and that I really should just go back to school for my BSN because she will pick the person with the BSN over the diploma nurse only based on that fact. She stated that diploma nurses are trained to take on the basic nursing duties however BSN know how to distinguish good research vs. garbage and apply it to their work environment. Well hey! That may very well be true and that's fine and dandy but we are talking about a new grad entry-level-get-eaten-alive position and it doesn't matter if you have a diploma, ADN, or BSN. ALL are qualified for this entry-level position. You pass the boards, you're capable. I am MORE than happy to go back to school and get my BSN, BUT I need a job first because surprise surprise, college isn't free! Who knew?! I could see getting a reaction like this if I had applied for a nurse manager or nursing supervisor position. But new grad? Infuriating! I gave up my WHOLE life. And I'm not just talking about time for fun and games and relaxation. I'm talking about my family, when the father of my child left me for another woman stating that I was "too dedicated to my education". I'm talking about single parenthood and still managing to finish my last year with an A. I'm talking about lost friendships and time with my daughter that I will NEVER get back. And for what exactly? To be told that my school is worthless? My education is worthless? I'M worthless? Unbelievable! The quality of a diploma education is one of a kind. You do spend time in the classroom but LIVE in the hospital practicing all of the necessary skills and graduate feeling prepared and ready!

Other thoughts?

[caliotter3]

Programs that award the AAS are decreasing in number.

[Nurse-Prestige]

Sorry, I would need quite a bit more than that to be convinced that the people advocating for higher educational standards in nursing are only interested in money, and not at all in advancing nursing ... Again, do you have any actual evidence of this?

Good post.

It's important to advocate for higher education in nursing, and that is why i am for the BSN being the minimum requirement entry level in nursing.

[FlyingScot, RN]

Good post.

It's important to advocate for higher education in nursing, and that is why i am for the BSN being the minimum requirement entry level in nursing.

You can advocate for BSN as the minimum entry level requirement without denigrating those who currently do not have one. Oh wait, no you can't.

[PixieRN14]

I disagree with you respectfully,

If I was a patient I would rather have a nurse that studied nursing for four years take care of me then a nurse that studied a year or two. Same goes with any field, nursing is no exception.

You have to know the complete knowledge (which a BSN offers, such as evidence based research, leadership roles that lower degree (ADN and Diploma) don't offer) and then when you do, experience will come into play. These classes are very important in nursing. That is the reason why many hospitals prefer BSN prepared nurses.

The BSN degree will be the preferred degree now and in the future.

I graduated from an ADN program and I had classes in Leadership and Evidence Based Practice. Most of the papers I had to write for school were on EBP. I am currently in a BSN program and quite frankly not learning really anything new that wasn't taught to me in my ADN program.

[ajmclean]

As for AAS, you can't go for a BSN, correct?

[klone, MSN, RN]

As for AAS, you can't go for a BSN, correct?

Are you asking if you cannot get a BSN if you have your RN from an AAS program? If so, no that is not correct.

[ajmclean]

Klone, Thanx. I wasn't sure. I had heard somewhere before an AAS wasn't applicable towards a BS.

[avengingspirit1]

Sorry, I would need quite a bit more than that to be convinced that the people advocating for higher educational standards in nursing are only interested in money, and not at all in advancing nursing ... Again, do you have any actual evidence of this?

Sorry, if you're not aware of what's been going on in the last few years in the nursing profession as well as the business of higher education, then there's not much I can do to help you. But I'll give you a brief overview:

As of 2012, it was reported that at least 200 colleges and universities had closed in the prior ten years due to a decline in enrollments as baby boomers have aged. That number is sure to higher in 2015. So those affiliated with institutions of higher learning and whose livelihoods depend on them had to figure out how to get people running back to four year schools. Remember that more student enrollment means more government funding, more funding for university departments that see an increase in admissions and salary raises as well as bonuses for those running and working in those departments. One of the first things I learned earning my four-year business degree was that non-profits exist only in theory. Since they can't show a profit on the books, any funding not used for programs goes out in the form of bonuses. And they always make sure every bit is used so they can ask for even more funding the next year. And many of those in the IOM, ANA as well as state nurses associations are in some way connected to four year universities and colleges.

At first those trying to drive the BSN push wanted to not allow the renewal of nursing licenses unless nurses got a BSN in ten years. Imagine that, these idiots wanted to take away the licenses of registered nurses unless they helped feed their coffers. Even with PT, when they went from a B.S. in PT to an entry level Master's, then to a D.PT, those already licensed and practicing would be grandfathered in and would never lose their licenses if they do not go back to school.

So when there was a big outcry from nurses, they changed their tune (much as two-faced people do) and said we only now encourage nurses to go back to school. Since the couldn't get it done legislatively, they figured they would take a flawed and biased study and use it to sell low-informed hospital administrator and HR twits the idea that more BSN nurses = better patient outcomes and satisfaction. And in looking at the last published Philadelphia area hospital patient satisfaction scores we see the exact opposite.

Also, a doctoral candidate close to the situation confirmed that the BSN push is simply money-driven. Anyone with common sense should be able to see the big picture here. Also a big-shot state representative whose wife is a nurse also concurred the BSN push is purely a business move and has nothing to do with the betterment of patient care.

[elkpark]

Sorry, if you're not aware of what's been going on in the last few years in the nursing profession as well as the business of higher education, then there's not much I can do to help you. But I'll give you a brief overview:

As of 2012, it was reported that at least 200 colleges and universities had closed in the prior ten years due to a decline in enrollments as baby boomers have aged. That number is sure to higher in 2015. So those affiliated with institutions of higher learning and whose livelihoods depend on them had to figure out how to get people running back to four year schools. Remember that more student enrollment means more government funding, more funding for university departments that see an increase in admissions and salary raises as well as bonuses for those running and working in those departments. One of the first things I learned earning my four-year business degree was that non-profits exist only in theory. Since they can't show a profit on the books, any funding not used for programs goes out in the form of bonuses. And they always make sure every bit is used so they can ask for even more funding the next year. And many of those in the IOM, ANA as well as state nurses associations are in some way connected to four year universities and colleges.

At first those trying to drive the BSN push wanted to not allow the renewal of nursing licenses unless nurses got a BSN in ten years. Imagine that, these idiots wanted to take away the licenses of registered nurses unless they helped feed their coffers. Even with PT, when they went from a B.S. in PT to an entry level Master's, then to a D.PT, those already licensed and practicing would be grandfathered in and would never lose their licenses if they do not go back to school.

So when there was a big outcry from nurses, they changed their tune (much as two-faced people do) and said we only now encourage nurses to go back to school. Since the couldn't get it done legislatively, they figured they would take a flawed and biased study and use it to sell low-informed hospital administrator and HR twits the idea that more BSN nurses = better patient outcomes and satisfaction. And in looking at the last published Philadelphia area hospital patient satisfaction scores we see the exact opposite.

Also, a doctoral candidate close to the situation confirmed that the BSN push is simply money-driven. Anyone with common sense should be able to see the big picture here. Also a big-shot state representative whose wife is a nurse also concurred the BSN push is purely a business move and has nothing to do with the betterment of patient care.

So, your answer is no, you don't have any evidence. You have the opinions of two people who agree with your opinion.

[avengingspirit1]

So, your answer is no, you don't have any evidence. You have the opinions of two people who agree with your opinion.

The facts were published in publications such as Nurse.com. You may go back and look at the quotes from some of these people in 2009 and then see how they changed their tune once there was an outcry. You can also look at the last published hospital satisfaction scores in the Phila. Inquirer July 14, 2013and see where the Hospitals hiring only BSNs scored. There is a website you can check and see that there is no difference between the passing rates of diploma and BSN graduates. I can giver the link here if you don't want to look it up. The rest is putting 2 and 2 together which I've found that those who spend most of their time in academia are unwilling or unable to do. If you want me to name names, I can't do that without the permission of those who will be mentioned. The evidence is right in front; all one needs to do is open their eyes and think outside the box. And anyone who doesn't believe higher education is a business, they're either lying, ignorant or both. Read "It's Academic" March 7, 2011 and you can see how they tried to manipulate nurses into running back to school. They wanted nurses to think states were going to change nursing law to require BSNs but it was false I contacted state governors and there was no intent to change nursing law.

I repeat; if it wasn't about increasing revenue, why did they originally want to force licensed nurses, some practicing for 20 years to have to go back to school. The answer is that not enough revenue would be generated by requiring just new nurses to get BSNs, they needed to manipulate the older nurses into going back to school.

By the way, I am familiar with Elkins Park.

[RescueNinja123]

dream61792 Are you still at broward college? What would you say is your hardest class by far?

[dream61792]

dream61792 Are you still at broward college? What would you say is your hardest class by far?

No I'm not I left BC program in 2012...Im currently about to graduate a BSN program in August