"Fired for NO Reason"

Nurses Professionalism

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we often see threads with the title "fired for no reason," or "new grad harassed and fired" or something to that effect. and i always feel at least a little sympathy for the individual involved, if only because i can clearly see by reading between the lines of their self-justifying post that there was a reason for their termination, even if they just don't get it. (there are always a few posts every year from a new grad who is convinced that the reason she's not getting along with her co-workers is that she's just so beautiful they're all jealous, that crowds of mean people are following her around, that she's so wonderful she's going to rock the er or icu or nicu or or and no one sees her wonderfulness clearly, or that some mean, tired, old nurse who ought to retire and get out of the way is targeting her for no good reason.)

i worked with a new grad who was recently terminated for, as she puts it, totally bogus reasons. evidently seeing mine as a sympathetic ear, she went on and on and on about how unfair it was that management expected her to get her act together and actually understand what was going on with her patients. "i've got the time management thing down pat," she said. "i don't know what else they want. they're just picking on me for no good reason." i liked sal, i really did. she was interesting and entertaining and really, really nice. she was also smart, hard-working (when she was at work) and well-educated. but she didn't study outside of work, and really didn't understand what was going on with her patients. i participated in several meetings with her in which it was pointed out that it's not enough to do the tasks, you have to understand why you're doing them. it's not enough to draw the labs. you have to understand what the results mean and then address them. for instance, if the inr is 9, it might explain the nosebleed, the cherry red urine and the fact that the hemoglobin is now 6. giving the coumadin at 6pm as scheduled is not a good thing, even if you gave it right on time and were able to explain to the patient that "it's a blood thinner." i could go on and on.

i got a call from sal today, complaining that she knows she's blackballed for no good reason because she just can't get another job. she wanted me to give her a reference. did she just not get it?

all you new grads out there who are convinced that you're being picked on for no reason, that your more experienced colleagues are just out to get you, and that you're being unfairly targeting, harassed, or picked on, hear this: it may be something you're doing (or not doing) and all those "mean people" are trying to explain it to you so you catch on, learn your job and succeed. we all tried over and over with sal, and she still doesn't get it. are you guilty of the same thing? if your preceptor says you lack critical thinking skills, do you take it to heart, think about it and learn from it? or are you convinced that the entire issue is that she's jealous of your extreme good looks? if your charge nurse charges you with a deficit in your time management skills do you spend time figuring out where you could speed things up a bit? or do you dismiss her as a tired old dog who can't learn a new trick and ought to retire anyway? are you taking to heart and benefitting from any negative feedback you're getting, however poorly given it is? or are you obsessing about how "mean" that nurse was to you and totally overlooking the message?

i wish sal would have "gotten it." she would have been delightful to work with if she had. but right now she's focused on badmouthing her preceptors and the charge nurse, and she still doesn't understand what she did wrong. don't make the same mistakes.

Specializes in ICU, Trauma, ER, Peds, Family Practice.

What is the actual reason this person was fired. I am not taking sides. But there isnt any evidence of why she got fired. This person a new grad Ahh they feel invincable and able to surmont the "old" system and tell folks how things should be run. This behaviour is certainly not tolerate due to attitude. However, did this RN have skills or where her skills or attitude in question. When we get out of school we are a bit defensive as we are thrown into the pot with different staff of all experiences and ages. Did this person need a time for adjustment. Just telling a professional to get their act together is much to general. There must have been sometime she needed to work on. Was it interpersonal skills and bedside manner, or techinical skills and judgement. Her guard is up and denial can be a killer professional or otherwise.

Clarification and facts would be nice in this case.

Paddlelady

Sound like that gal in the OP's post was a real piece of work--I mean come on not knowing your INR--you learn this in your first semester of nursing school...plus I like (sarcasm) the way she explained to her patient that Coumadin is a blood thinner--wow she could have done better than that..made me really wonder how that girl graduated from Nursing school and managed to pass her boards...Obviously she lacks a fundamental knowledge and frankly this shows her in a very bad light--there are two types of mistakes in my books--mistakes that can just happend and mistakes from a deliberate lack of knowledge,and the second type is definitely harder to excuse or let alone "forgive".

I guess I need to clarify my point. There are good and bad nurses, there are good and bad nursing schools, there are good and bad nurse preceptors, and there are good and bad place to work. Nursing is a hot career. Everybody is going into nursing. Nursing is also a tough career. It requires a lot of knowledge and alot of just who you are to be a good nurse. No nursing schools are solely responsible for bad nurses or "nurse who just don't get it" nor are nurse preceptors. It is the whole lot feeding into the problem. Many nursing schools take any person who can pass abre acedemic requirements. What is they say "a nurse who passes with a 70% is still a nurse" maybe we need to change that kind of thinking. No book smarts don't always make a good nurse, but a person without book smarts can be danger (one post wrote about a new nurse not knowing the significance of a high INR). A person who can relate to people is no good without clinical descion making skills or book smarts.

There are many a nurse that I have worked with that should not be a nurse preceptor. They lack the knowledge and skills (including teaching skills) to be good nurse preceptor. Other I have met are great nurse preceptors and they themselves are jus able to allowed to be preceptors.

I guess what I am trying say is the problem is profession wide problem. The nursing school and educators need to be more concerned about the quality of the graduates they turn out. If the person is not making it as student then they probably would make it as a nurse. Nursing school also have to look at the people they are admitting. I know there is a alot of discussion abou ADN vs. BSN. I have found that ADN programs take just about anybody. BNS programs require screening , good GPA, and the like.

Secondly, nurse preceptors can be good or bad. There are some nurses who are great nurse preceptors. These nurses should be encouraged and rewarded. The ability to teach other is a gift and not all nurses have that gift.

Third, new nurses themselves need to be responsible for their own training. If they don't know something ask. If no one to ask, look it up. Leaning does not end with nursing school.

Face it every person, school, educator, preceptor involved with training new nurses, is to blame, including the nurse. A bad nurse can cause serious harm and shouldn't be in nursing. That includes new nurses and the the ones older then time itself. Experience does not equal good.

I do ask, there are many new grad nurses out there who are going to be great nurses. We have the book smarts, we have the personality, we have the clinical thinking skills need ---- Just give new nurses a chance. There is a shortage of experienced nurses, but how can new nurses become experienced, if we can't even get an interview.

NOT TRUE. DO not stereotype ADN programs this way. They can also be very selective. IF they are associated with a college they require entrance exams and you often must keep a 3.0 to get through. Some 4 year schools do not even require a 3.0!!! Our local community college takes about 1/4 to 1/3 of the applicants for the nursing program and they have to take a nursing entrance test and the ACT test, along with other requirements to get in. Some who flunk out go to other schools with a longer, more spread out program where they do not have to keep a 3.0.

Specializes in ICU/Critical Care.

Agree. ADN programs do not JUST take anybody. They have high GPA requirements just like BSN programs too. They are very selective. Stop stereotyping ADN programs and their graduates, it's so rude.

Specializes in GERIATRICS AND PRISON.

Ruby You hit the nail on the head.

I work with a nurse that does not get it. She has had multiple chances, tons of assistance. It is allways someone else's fault, then off on a smoke break she goes. She blames everyone else when the count is off. Then goes oh I took that item. She has done things and not documented, patient tells another staff member.

I am so tired right now from this. I make mistakes and owe up to them. This is a learning job. If I only did what I learned 28 years ago, well enough said.

Lawyers charge billable hours. Yes they are allways learning new laws, and the way to interpret them based on new rulings. We are allways learning new and best practice which we apply to our patients.

Oh I need a good glass of wine and some down time.

Thank you to all who say it is time for some personal accountability. I love a student who questions why and wants to learn, and a good teacher

nursing school also have to look at the people they are admitting. i know there is a alot of discussion abou adn vs. bsn. i have found that adn programs take just about anybody. bns programs require screening, good gpa, and the like.

get your facts straight. :nono: adn programs do not take just about anybody. i don't know about your neck of the woods but the competition is fierce to get accepted to several of the adn programs in my region. i was "screened", have a 3.8 gpa and have two prior degrees but was still waitlisted for two semesters in my adn program.

as a matter of fact, in the state of maryland, the percentage of nclex-rn 1st time candidates in adn programs is higher than the bsn programs. but don't take my word for it...check the stats for yourself: http://www.mbon.org/education/nclex_rn_stats_fy09.pdf i'm pretty sure this trend is the same across the nation.

i think whitedog may be confusing that CCs will admit most anyone...this doesnt mean to the nursing program.....and the prophetic saying that followed ,.,..will admit anyone, is that, that doesnt mean they will graduate....

wow. i'm only pre-nursing and i still know that you shouldn't give a blood thinner to someone who's having a nosebleed and in the urine.... Awesome post! I love reading these kinds of posts because it helps prepare me. so thank you. :)

Specializes in OB, HH, ADMIN, IC, ED, QI.
sound like that gal in the op's post was a real piece of work--i mean come on not knowing your inr--you learn this in your first semester of nursing school...plus i like (sarcasm) the way she explained to her patient that coumadin is a blood thinner--wow she could have done better than that..made me really wonder how that girl graduated from nursing school and managed to pass her boards...you only have the op's vision to go on......and i saw that she had another agenda altogether. we don't know how much time there was to explain the medicine she was giving's properties, and the op wasn't her preceptor, with her own work to do. i doubt that she could spend much time with that new grad, to form such an opinion.

obviously she lacks a fundamental knowledge and frankly this shows her in a very bad light--there are two types of mistakes in my books--mistakes that can just happen (possibly due to a person who isn't thrilled to be precepting, or stress from other imposing situations. how can you accept op's value of this poor new grad. perhaps no other specific information was given her, after all);

and mistakes from a deliberate (????) lack of knowledge,and the second type is definitely harder to excuse or let alone "forgive".

does a nursing student whose time and money are wrapped around learning information so they can be good at what they've chosen to do with their life, really choose not to absorb it, and then be faced with a background person's expectation that they can repeat all that there is to know, immediately on demand, to a possibly hostile preceptor? there's also the patient's learning receptiveness to consider, too. it's important to give others the "benefit of the doubt". that will make your, and their work much more pleasant!

unless things have changed since i worked with new grads (and they probably have), preceptors are needed for them, as the bedside experience provided while at school, is relatively easy - not too many patients, few interruptions (and if there are acute situations that comeup while a student is doing one thing, the instructor takes over in deciding which should take the student's time (rfationed, as it is). usually the area in which the student works, has been covered in the classroom just previous to having the poractical application of theory, so needed information about the type of patients encountered, is available, without too much searching.

once a new grad gets onto a unit, much time may have gone by since she/he studied the situation(s) she/he faces. the purpose of having a preceptor, is to see how a new grad adapts the information and skills learned, when under many stressors - time, acuity, different pocs, personalities that aren't cooperative, and lack of breaks, etc. to me, it seems like a cardiac stress test. due to lack of strength (skills, knowledge, overload, possibly not feeling well), some people collapse, others tough it out without saying, "whoa!!" others get angry, forgetful, stymied, put out...... and then there's the "blame game".

i found that the op lacked recall about his/her first experiences as a nurse, was judgmental, and impatient. there was little to no empathy for someone who "froze in battle"!

the quotes below seem to be directed at no specific individual or situation involving the op directly:

"and i always feel at least a little sympathy for the individual involved, if only because i can clearly see by reading between the lines of their self-justifying post that there was a reason for their termination, even if they just don't get it." that isn't always true. new grads also get to see their colleagues under stress, and their attitude may need an adjustment when in a in a pinch, too.

as a former instructor and administration nurse, i don't believe that "management expected her to get her act together and actually understand what was going on with her patients" adjustment takes time and good supervision in which an assigned preceptor gives information, assigns material to aid improvement, and definitely written material about the illnesses and medications patients have who are assigned in the first month. usually where i worked, assignments of patients to preceptors for their new grad,have been done the day before the work was to be done; and time given him/her to gather "handouts" regarding the plan of care, etc.

i've found that it pays to be a giving type of helper, which allows space/atmosphere for more to be given back.

"several meetings with her in which it was pointed out that it's not enough to do the tasks" without providing examples of what is required, rather than criticizing someone for an attitude they may or might not have, how is the new grad to know what is required? this isn't army boot camp wherein reflexive reactions are drilled into people (i hope). that chapter in nursing should have been abolished long ago....... i can only imagine how this caused any new grad to get her/his "back up", and once negativity enters any learning situation, little is learned. however lasting antipathy can result........

"she wanted me to give her a reference. did she just not get it?" no, ruby, you didn't get it.you wrote that she thought she could vent and rely upon you to reflect what you thought, and you didn't correct that misapprehension. it would have been kinder, if you had said something like, "i really didn't work with you long enough to form an opinion of your capabilities, since you hadn't "hit your stride" before your dismissal, and i had my own patients."

i didn't get that you were this person's preceptor, but you did go along with playing the part of an ally. unless you deal with what your relationship with someone is, when there is clearly miscommunication on your part, early, like when she first started venting, the impression someone gets, is that since you were kind enough to listen, you'd be kind enough to care what happened to her. i get the impression that you actually played a "double agent" role, and may even have laughed about her naive assumption that you were a friendly person, to others as you did in your post.

"convinced that you're being picked on for no reason, that your more experienced colleagues are just out to get you, and that you're being unfairly targeting, harassed, or picked on, hear this: it may be something you're doing (or not doing)" and it could be that what a new grad perceives, is actually the case.

i've seen nurses "eating their own" which seems to me like an advanced case of unresolved "sibling rivalry". that was the sense i got, too when you referred to someone's pleasing physical appearance............. we don't really know how some with great physical appeal actually think of themselves. look up "reaction formation".

i have gone into great detail about the op, because i saw in "blackhearted"'s response, the continuation of something that could be a terminal disease among nurses, until we die out. "knee-jerk" critical responses to new grads can't be tolerated!! :nurse:

Yes, it certainly is interesting to hear both sides of the story. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where someone saying they were "fired for no reason" is actually the truth, or at least close to it. But, I see what you're saying in that in many cases there is a reason, and the recently fired just can't see it. Do keep in mind though that being let go has got to be a very emotional and stressful time for someone, so I think they're lack of seeing the whole picture is understandable. Still not a reason to shift blame everywhere but yourself, though.

Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.

i've seen nurses "eating their own" which seems to me like an advanced case of unresolved "sibling rivalry". that was the sense i got, too when you referred to someone's pleasing physical appearance............. we don't really know how some with great physical appeal actually think of themselves. look up "reaction formation".[/size]

i have gone into great detail about the op, because i saw in "blackhearted"'s response, the continuation of something that could be a terminal disease among nurses, until we die out. "knee-jerk" critical responses to new grads can't be tolerated!! :nurse:

wow! just wow! i guess you told me!

i liked sal, i really did. and just like the four preceptors she went through (none of them was "a good fit"), i wanted her to succeed. i tried to help her succeed. i did as much as i could, but it wasn't enough. sometimes you just can't do enough to help someone succeed. sometimes they just don't get it.

i could go on and on, but i don't think you're going to get it. no matter how hard you try to help them succeed, some new grads just aren't icu material -- or even nurse material. if everyone is telling them they're just not catching on to critical thinking or time management or attention to detail or whatever, maybe it's because they just aren't catching on. i meant it to be a "public service announcement." sometimes the new grads who are convinced that they're being "picked on for no good reason" are unsafe practitioners and they'd rather blame others than take a look at their own shortcomings. not always, but sometimes. every new grad who thinks they're being targeted by mean people ought to take some time to reflect upon what they might be contributing to the problem, because sometimes it really is their fault. not always. but sometimes.

The bottom line is some can learn it in NS but have trouble actually applying it on the job. That doesn't mean these nurses or dumb or aren't trying hard. It is just that they are having trouble connecting the intellectual into action. How long you invest in them isn't an easy decision. I'm sure after putting time and money into their orientation you really want to see it work out and pay off, but I do think there needs to be a limit. If they can't think critically they can put patients at great risk and no one wants that.

On the flip side I do think some nurses (new and experienced) are let go for reasons not of their doing. Nurses aren't immune to red tape, bad politics, and bad management. I don't however think this is what the OP was referring to. I think she was speaking of those having actual issues and being made aware of them and shifting blame versus taking responsibility. This happens as well.

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