"Fired for NO Reason"

[Ruby Vee]

we often see threads with the title "fired for no reason," or "new grad harassed and fired" or something to that effect. and i always feel at least a little sympathy for the individual involved, if only because i can clearly see by reading between the lines of their self-justifying post that there was a reason for their termination, even if they just don't get it. (there are always a few posts every year from a new grad who is convinced that the reason she's not getting along with her co-workers is that she's just so beautiful they're all jealous, that crowds of mean people are following her around, that she's so wonderful she's going to rock the er or icu or nicu or or and no one sees her wonderfulness clearly, or that some mean, tired, old nurse who ought to retire and get out of the way is targeting her for no good reason.)

i worked with a new grad who was recently terminated for, as she puts it, totally bogus reasons. evidently seeing mine as a sympathetic ear, she went on and on and on about how unfair it was that management expected her to get her act together and actually understand what was going on with her patients. "i've got the time management thing down pat," she said. "i don't know what else they want. they're just picking on me for no good reason." i liked sal, i really did. she was interesting and entertaining and really, really nice. she was also smart, hard-working (when she was at work) and well-educated. but she didn't study outside of work, and really didn't understand what was going on with her patients. i participated in several meetings with her in which it was pointed out that it's not enough to do the tasks, you have to understand why you're doing them. it's not enough to draw the labs. you have to understand what the results mean and then address them. for instance, if the inr is 9, it might explain the nosebleed, the cherry red urine and the fact that the hemoglobin is now 6. giving the coumadin at 6pm as scheduled is not a good thing, even if you gave it right on time and were able to explain to the patient that "it's a blood thinner." i could go on and on.

i got a call from sal today, complaining that she knows she's blackballed for no good reason because she just can't get another job. she wanted me to give her a reference. did she just not get it?

all you new grads out there who are convinced that you're being picked on for no reason, that your more experienced colleagues are just out to get you, and that you're being unfairly targeting, harassed, or picked on, hear this: it may be something you're doing (or not doing) and all those "mean people" are trying to explain it to you so you catch on, learn your job and succeed. we all tried over and over with sal, and she still doesn't get it. are you guilty of the same thing? if your preceptor says you lack critical thinking skills, do you take it to heart, think about it and learn from it? or are you convinced that the entire issue is that she's jealous of your extreme good looks? if your charge nurse charges you with a deficit in your time management skills do you spend time figuring out where you could speed things up a bit? or do you dismiss her as a tired old dog who can't learn a new trick and ought to retire anyway? are you taking to heart and benefitting from any negative feedback you're getting, however poorly given it is? or are you obsessing about how "mean" that nurse was to you and totally overlooking the message?

i wish sal would have "gotten it." she would have been delightful to work with if she had. but right now she's focused on badmouthing her preceptors and the charge nurse, and she still doesn't understand what she did wrong. don't make the same mistakes.

[Batman25]

I am a new graduate who has recently been told that my critical thinking skills are not developing fast enough and I am at risk for loosing my job if they do not improve. I am about 2 mths into the 5mth new grad program. I respect my "old dog" preceptors who have seen fit to essentially leave me own my own, they satallite in my general area and I report to them what we have, what Ive done what I plan to do ect. Rarely are they by my side but are not far away if I need them.

I have been complimented by them ,the MD'S, the charge nurses & my patients(who dont know I am a new RN). The problem... when It comes to progress meetings I am told my preceptors feel like they cannot leave me alone and that Im not 'where they would like me to be". I am confused... I openly welcome constructive criticism, want to learn...

I was under the impression I was doing well, and untill the meeting I have not been given reason to think otherwise... any tips or suggestions on how to procede successfully would be appreciated. Thank you.

You are definitely getting mixed messages if many are complimenting you and then comes the news that they feel you aren't where you should be. I would ask to have a meeting weekly or bi-weekly to discuss progress. I would also ask for clarification as it appears you often do work solo. Ask for feedback on a more regular basis with more detailed information. Ask them to point out specifically where the error of your ways is. You need to know that in order to correct it. You can't be doing too badly if patients, doctors, and your management is being supportive and complimentary. Be open to what the feedback is and see if you objectively agree with them and how you can improve. Hang in there. And remember it takes time.

[vivacious1healer]

Yes, I work with one or two that I believe would do better in a different type of nursing....say a clinic or school where most of the work isnt life or death issues.

One RN in particular has been working in the hospital 3 years now, and asking new grads for help in problem solving/critical thinking. Time management is still poor, constantly stressed out, and everyone gossips about her. But, she gets her work done and will ask for help and ask questions. I agree with most of the complaints about her, but I try to stress the point " at least she is ASKING questions, and knows what she doesn't know." or " I think hospital nursing doesn't suit her".

Other RN allows patient's b/ps to drop all shift, HR elevates, temp elevates and neuro status declines. Reports to oncoming RN that she 'paged the resident all day', and had several other RNs back up her story. Ummm....at what point did you think you should page the attending if your pages were ignored? I ended up sending pt to ICU within a few hours of starting my shift. This particular RN is 1 year out, with a cocky attitude and buddies with all the young residents. She cried the next day when i told her what happened.

Who would you rather work with?

[vampiregirl, BSN, RN]

I'm new to nursing, but being a nontraditional student (been out of school for over a decade), I can appreciate what the OP is expressing. The whole being fired for "no" reason senario plays itself out in almost every occupation, but the stakes are upped significantly in nursing - lives are at stake. Sometimes people simply aren't a good fit in a particular job, or even a particular career. This doesn't mean that they find a good fit somewhere else.

What I did take away from op in this thread is further reinforcement that I need to take responsibility for my nursing knowledge. What is learned in school simply can't encompass everything that is needed for a particular job. When I finally graduate and land a job, the learning doesn't stop - actually it will be just getting started. I'll need to apply pre-existing knowledge and learn how to "put the pieces together", along with learning specifics for my area.

[romansten9]

Leslie, I agree with much of what "eriksoln" said. There can be "slow learners" in any profession, but it is the job of educators and preceptors to take the new grad from where they are to where they need to be. Obviously the person has enough sense to make it through nursing school and enough sense to get hired. A struggling person is most often a sign that the educator/preceptor isn't doing their job. Most people can be taught, if given plenty of instruction and patience. Unfortunately, mean co-workers (and even preceptors) do exist. People don't need a reason to be mean to the new grads, sometimes it just happens. Despite how hard they may work, and even if they are very intelligent and hard working, they may be seen as a threat. (or who knows why people may treat them badly) I've heard many times that "nurses eat their young" I didn't want to believe it, but you know what? sometimes it is very true.

[RN1982]

A struggling person is most often a sign that the educator/preceptor isn't doing their job. Most people can be taught, if given plenty of instruction and patience.

Sorry but I completely disagree. There are some people who just don't get it, period. And believe it or not, it's not always because of the preceptors.

[romansten9]

"turnleftside" If you would go back and read what I wrote, I did not say that it is "always" the preceptors/educators fault if a student or new employee isn't trained well. I also said "most" people can be taught, if given enough instruction and patience. What I said is true for the following reason: The majority of nursing students and new hires will make it through school or through their orientation. Statistics prove this to be a fact. I did not say ALL make it through. Some of the ones that struggle will struggle even when helped. Some of the ones that struggle are not given enough help and are given up on too early. I think everyone can agree that preceptors aren't perfect. (who is?) And as long as preceptors are NOT perfect, there is room for improvement.

[Blackheartednurse]

Very interesting topic..I do agree with OP that it is not ENOUGH to just do the tasks. It is far more important to know WHY you are doing something...Even monkey at the zoo can be taught to do things..I know that there are many people who believe otherwise and at times I hear people saying that as long as the nurse knows how to perform tasks she will do ok in the world of nursing...or even better one" Nursing is all about performing tasks" I definitely dont agree with that...we are the doctors' eyes and ears,we spend majority of time with the patients and detect those often subtle changes..Also what is wrong with doing homework on your own time,do teachers get paid for grading the school paperwork on their own time..really why people make such a big deal about expanding your education? Dont you want to know about medicine for your own sake so you can be a better nurse?? The only reason you would not would be if you went into nursing solely for the money..

[RN1982]

I can agree with you there. Some of the ones who struggle will still struggle when helped. I worked with a nurse like that. I had to show him everything, things that he should have known like our ICU protocols, and I'm not talking about right out of orientation, he was still struggling 6 months after. Everything you need to do when your patient is on an insulin drip was in those protocols but he'd pull out the book and say "is that what I do".

I agree you didn't say always BUT most often is not the correct term either. Placing most of the blame on the preceptor is wrong in my mind, it's also the responsibility of the orientee to learn and if they are struggling with a concept, they should take the time to pick up their nursing book and reeducate themselves instead of solely depending upon someone else.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

i'm new to nursing, but being a nontraditional student (been out of school for over a decade), i can appreciate what the op is expressing. the whole being fired for "no" reason senario plays itself out in almost every occupation, but the stakes are upped significantly in nursing - lives are at stake. sometimes people simply aren't a good fit in a particular job, or even a particular career. this doesn't mean that they find a good fit somewhere else.

what i did take away from op in this thread is further reinforcement that i need to take responsibility for my nursing knowledge. what is learned in school simply can't encompass everything that is needed for a particular job. when i finally graduate and land a job, the learning doesn't stop - actually it will be just getting started. i'll need to apply pre-existing knowledge and learn how to "put the pieces together", along with learning specifics for my area.

you got it! that's what i was hoping for!

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

leslie, i agree with much of what "eriksoln" said. there can be "slow learners" in any profession, but it is the job of educators and preceptors to take the new grad from where they are to where they need to be. obviously the person has enough sense to make it through nursing school and enough sense to get hired. a struggling person is most often a sign that the educator/preceptor isn't doing their job. most people can be taught, if given plenty of instruction and patience. unfortunately, mean co-workers (and even preceptors) do exist. people don't need a reason to be mean to the new grads, sometimes it just happens. despite how hard they may work, and even if they are very intelligent and hard working, they may be seen as a threat. (or who knows why people may treat them badly) i've heard many times that "nurses eat their young" i didn't want to believe it, but you know what? sometimes it is very true.

i don't get it. at what point, in your opinion, is a new grad responsible for his or her own knowledge base, skill level and critical thinking? after two second chances? three? or should we just keep them on indefinitely, nevermind the danger to our patients?

yes, it is the job of educators and preceptors to take the new grad from fresh out of school to safe practitioner, but sometimes it just can't be done no matter how wonderful the educator or how patient the preceptor. and although i hesitate to suggest it for i know it's going to get me flamed, there are some "young" who eat their preceptors. a new grad who comes out of school believing that they already know everything isn't going to be easy to educate or precept to matter what.

[camoflower]

"Now....What is Phenergan, again?" ...she asked, after being a LPN for 4 months, on a post op floor:nurse:. Prior to that "is this 3 Units?" no...its 4 units.."whoops"..she say. "Now, how to I start a PCA pump?" for the 5th time, someone would have to take the time to help her set one up...not realizing the patient had been waiting 5 hours....she was fired. She called me and stated "I really don't know why they fired me!" "soo unfair". ..get it?

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

"turnleftside" if you would go back and read what i wrote, i did not say that it is "always" the preceptors/educators fault if a student or new employee isn't trained well. i also said "most" people can be taught, if given enough instruction and patience. what i said is true for the following reason: the majority of nursing students and new hires will make it through school or through their orientation. statistics prove this to be a fact. i did not say all make it through. some of the ones that struggle will struggle even when helped. some of the ones that struggle are not given enough help and are given up on too early. i think everyone can agree that preceptors aren't perfect. (who is?) and as long as preceptors are not perfect, there is room for improvement.

i've read your posts -- twice -- and i still see someone who is trying to blame educators and preceptors for the problems new grads are having. the fact that someone had enough book knowledge to make it through school and pass their boards does not mean that they actually "get it" or that they ever will. seems as though you have issues with preceptors. rough orientation perhaps? if that's the case, please think back upon what you might have contributed to the problem.