Sure to Get Flamed for This

[Kyrshamarks]

I am sure I am about to get flamed for posting this, but I feel the need to anyways. I have been seeing these threads talking about bullying and teachers or preceptors hating the students, and new nurses or abusing them because of some perceived slight or injustice. Well guess what?

The world is a hard cold nasty place that does not need to be polite to you or worry whether your feelings got hurt and you feel offended. You need to grow up and realize that the abuse that you claim is rampant, or the bullying that you experience all the time is not their problem, but rather your problem.

I see so many posts about this and I wonder how some of these people have survived as long as they have. School is tough? Deal with it. You think that someone else is getting it easier? Well too bad, they may be but no one ever promised you everything would be fair. You have to learn that there is inequality in life. It's how you overcome that inequality that matters. It teaches perseverance.

Abusive teachers? Maybe they are trying to get the best in you to come out. What you think is abuse maybe is pushing you to your limits, to get you further along in your potential. So your feelings got hurt at school, grow up, feelings get hurt every day.

Your preceptor is unorganized and does not like you and bad mouths you to your manager, and all your patients love you but no one at the hospital sees how great you really are?

Well your preceptor may actually have great time management skill, but when having to slow down and teach someone their job, things do tend to get disorganized. You may be part of the blame there.

Did you ever stop to think that you are the proverbial monkey wrench in a well oiled machine? The need to teach you, and I realize you do need to learn, can be very time consuming. They may tell your manager that you need improving or that you are not advancing fast enough. They may be all smiles to you, because they want to support you and keep you positive, but they need to tell the manager how you really are.

Speaking of orientation, how often have I seen statements that say the other nurses are not supportive and will not answer questions. Have you ever thought that maybe you are asking TOO MANY questions?

After a bit it may seem that you are not retaining the info provided and everyone gets tired of answering the same questions over and over. Part of learning is knowing when to shut your mouth and just watch. It has been said by people wiser than me that the only question you should ask is the question that you already know the answer to. If that does not make sense to you, think about it for a while and you might just be surprised that a light comes on.

So basically what i am saying is grow up and act like the adult that you are. Life is not fair, school is not fair, work is not fair. You just have to learn to deal with it.

[JuneLeeRN]

Thank you!

[BuckyBadgerRN, ASN, RN]

Wouldn't that be wonderful if they did? Sadly, true bullies, by definition, rarely see themselves as needing to change anything about themselves.

And aggressive people are the fault of the aggressor. And little do I see someone who admits to being aggressive and inappropriate in a school or work setting. Which can be and is just as much of an issue as someone feeling put upon or downed.

People shouldn't have to put up with someone else's bad behavior as adults. So we say "grow up and get thicker skin" however, if aggressors put their own house in order, no one should have to.

[TriciaJ, RN]

I think people on this forum should be allowed to vent without being subjected to self-righteous diatribes. The fact is, there are entitled people in the world and some of them end up as nurses. Maybe OP has had a run of them lately and hit a saturation point.

The problem is multi-faceted. Nursing schools are more interested in producing revenue than nurses. So they skimp on clinical experience and focus on touchy-feely "you set your own learning goals" kind of crap. People who got weeded out in the bad old days now manage to become "nurses" even though they aren't prepared to nurse. Conscientious people become nurses, too, but have to overcome their lack of clinical experience. That's why we get so many threads from new grads, saying "Help, I'm drowning" and "Maybe I'm not cut out for this." That's because there's now a huge gap between school and the work world.

I always work hard to help my orientees bridge that gap. The good ones appreciate my efforts, because they know I'm doing it for them. The princesses can't believe I'm making them do stuff.

I dealt with a lot of crusty old bats when I was a young'un. My M.O was to keep my head down and show that I was conscientious and not a flake. It never took me long to win them over and make them my staunchest allies. My career was what I made it, but I owe a lot to a lot of people and they didn't always make my delicate feelings their priority.

[FGCU/MOM/RN]

God help our profession!

[nursel56]

I think people on this forum should be allowed to vent without being subjected to self-righteous diatribes. The fact is, there are entitled people in the world and some of them end up as nurses. Maybe OP has had a run of them lately and hit a saturation point.

We've also had a spate of over-the-top threads about grade-fixing and abuse in nursing that overstate the issues in an effort to stir the pot which tends to have a polarizing effect on people.

I think if people don't recognize themselves in a vent post there's no need to get offended. I believe the OP was talking about a very specific type of person and is probably a great preceptor.

[paramedic-RN]

Not sure how these replies work I just copied and pasted in response to ruby's reply to my original message.

12:19 am by Ruby Vee

Quote from paramedic-RN

I’m sure this battle of new nurses vs. experienced nurses has been going on since the beginning of nursing. As a newer nurse myself who is coming into this as a second profession I’ve worked in many fields prior to this and sadly I think there’s way more bullying/tattle tailing in nursing than any other profession I’ve been exposed to. It seems like a lot of girls that were the mean cheerleaders you see portrayed in movies grow up to be nurses. Hate to say it because there are plenty of great ones too.

Thirty eight years ago, when I started nursing, we newbies respected the experienced nurses, looked up to them and aspired to be just like them. The experienced nurses who took time to show us stuff were thanked copiously and we never, ever disrespected them. Consequently, they looked out for us. Things are so much different now.

Ruby,

Well I respect the more experienced nurses just as much as I respect the cafeteria person that brings the lunch trays and the radiology tech that takes them for a CT and the MD that writes the orders and the custodian that mops the floors, I respect everyone............and that's the difference.

Newbies are treated with less respect.

It seems like these more experience nurses think that for every extra year of service they deserve and extra ounce of respect, why? It doesn't matter how long you've been doing something your just a person. I have less respect for criminals, rude people, etc. not someone with less experience then me at something.

My badge said 'GN' (graduate nurse) for a few months because I was hired before my NCLEX and I didn't immediately change it because I wanted people to know I was a new nurse. And whoa was I treated differently until I changed my badge to say RN. My regular co workers who knew me treated me well but new nurses like maybe a PRN one who didn't know me, they definitely treated me with less respect (not everyone of course) But weird after I changed my badge to RN that didn't happen anymore.

[FGCU/MOM/RN]

I am getting flamed by a fewer than I thought..LOL

There have been a few "negative" commentsw directed at me but I am an adult and can take those without feeling like I am being bullied. So for a few of those people let me tell you about myself a little bit. Yes I am a nurse, been doing this going on 25+ years. I am former Special Forces. I worked my way through school and have two wonderful boys who are in college. I taught them early on that they will not succeed in everything, and that is ok, but do not quit trying. That is how you get better. Losing and failing are pluses. They teach you how to be a gracious winner. I also told them never to strat a battle or pick a fight, but rather if they find theselves in one they better darn well finish the it. That is how you defeat bullies. You have to stand up to them and stand your ground.

As for my statement about questions, it may be an "old trial lawyer" thing but I was told it by a grillzed old Saregent in the military, and it really took hold. It was explained by another poster. The fact that some still don't get it after it being explained really does say alot to me. Sometimes the answer to the question is not heard by your ears, but rather answered by your eyes.

I am one of the easiest going people that you would ever meet. I don't eat my young (except they do taste good with BBQ sauce), I do not stress out iver things, I realize there are more than one way to do things and I realize that life is too short to worry about most things. I also learned early on in life that life is not fair, nothing good is really ever handed to you and not everyone is going to be a wiinner.

I believe your initial post is how you actually feel and treat others. The negative reactions are a result of your very negative post!

[eagle78]

The OP said: "I have been seeing these threads talking about bullying and teachers or preceptors hating the students, and new nurses or abusing them because of some perceived slight or injustice."

I am confused, no where in the original post did the OP say "all students". So what gives???

[joljenni]

I find this topic quite interesting having been on both sides of the spectrum. Growing up I was bullied every single day. I was 'the beast" in school. I studied my ass off, worked while in high school, got good marks, and paid for it. In the end it has made me stronger. My sister on the other hand was bullied roughly the same and it crippled her. People react in situations in different ways. I am a person from the new generation, the me generation. I don't like it and have very few friends because of it. While I worked and saved my own money to pay for post secondary all of my peers were out having a good time, skating by in class, not having jobs. If they did get a bad mark it was the teachers fault instead of their own. As a student who worked hard, was brought up with an attitude of 'you get in life what you put into it' it's hard when you try your hardest and someone else can come along, complain, and in the end have the same payout. When you grow up with nothing it makes you realize early on life isn't fair. But that doesn't make it ok.

I am not a nurse, I am just starting post secondary after serving in the military. But I do have experiencing being a preceptor in my own field. I recently had a review and was told that I am hard working, respectable, reliable and frank. And although my boss likes my honesty, other people aren't used to frankness and that my personality can be a shocker for people who have been sugar coated their whole life. The entire time I'm being told this I'm thinking..."Ok thank-you for the feedback, yes I'm a tell it like it is person. I say good job when you do great, but I also say hey, here's the mistake, let's fix it. And now I am being told to coddle someone because they don't like frankly being told when they screwed up or how to improve!?" I LOVE feedback! I love failing! My failures in life have made me who I am. I would not and can not grow if I am never told where I can improve. I was completely shocked when in my own review a point was that others aren't used to being told where to improve frankly so I have to learn to sugar coat things.... I HATE beating around the bush, it wastes my time and theirs. By no means am I rude. It's best to start by saying "You're really good at doing (blank). An area to improve would be (blank)." I've been bullied, I know what bullying is....constructive criticism is NOT THE SAME THING> and sadly, my generation can not distinguish between the two.

[shatikaz]

I can't help but to chime in here. Most know better than to expect everyone to be nice, polite, or even professional. .. even though these are traits espoused as being the hallmark of nursing, but let's be clear, no one should have to go to work and deal with people making comments about their sexuality, going behind them to change rates on their patients IV pumps or shutting them off, hiding the keys to storage rooms, fabricating stories which call a person's ethics and competence into question, or physical violence. I have experienced all of these from a group of nurses who were angry that I dared to have my own opinion and would not be manipulated or controlled. Bullying exists. I never backed down and i never cow toed, but it was still Bullying tactics. Oh and a preceptors job is not to teach nursing but to Orient to facility policy and procedure. In that vein no orientee should be fearful of asking a question. Preceptors who don't like answering questions and become frazzled as they teachare in the wrong business.

[barachi]

Or you can realize that change is possible and it starts with one person. Yes the world is unfair, cruel, full of hate. I may sound like a total idiot. Ya your right this world is full of it. Total BS.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

I can't help but to chime in here. Most know better than to expect everyone to be nice, polite, or even professional. .. even though these are traits espoused as being the hallmark of nursing, but let's be clear, no one should have to go to work and deal with people making comments about their sexuality, going behind them to change rates on their patients IV pumps or shutting them off, hiding the keys to storage rooms, fabricating stories which call a person's ethics and competence into question, or physical violence. I have experienced all of these from a group of nurses who were angry that I dared to have my own opinion and would not be manipulated or controlled. Bullying exists. I never backed down and i never cow toed, but it was still Bullying tactics. Oh and a preceptors job is not to teach nursing but to Orient to facility policy and procedure. In that vein no orientee should be fearful of asking a question. Preceptors who don't like answering questions and become frazzled as they teachare in the wrong business.

If you have that many negative experiences at work, perhaps you need to do some self-examination and figure out what you're bringing to the table. Bullying exists, but not to the extent that it's complained about on AN. If you've never backed down, perhaps that's part of the problem. As a new employee, you don't know everything about your job; you're not expected to. But if you don't back down when told you're wrong, you will probably never fit in to the work place. That's not something to be proud of, nor does it mean you were bullied.

Sadly, the preceptor's job IS to teach nursing, because nursing schools aren't teaching it these days. And while no orientee should be fearful of asking an intelligent question, it is something else again to expect to be spoonfed. Preceptors who become frazzled as they teach are NOT in the wrong business. We are nurses, not teachers. Not everyone is allowed a chance to opt out of precepting, and even nurses who are poor teachers have plenty of information to impart to their orientees. It is the job of the orientee to learn . . . a good teacher would be nice, but it's not always feasible. You still have to learn.