Socializing after work in your scrubs

[klone]

Yuck! Who does this? So my husband and I are on a long weekend in Taos, NM. Friday night we were at a local bar listening to a band. In walk a group of women in their mid-twenties. They appeared to have just gotten off work, as they were all wearing scrubs. They hung out at the bar for several hours, drinking, shooting pool, dancing, flirting with men. Wearing their scrubs. Yuck! Of course, after having a couple beers, myself, I was tempted to approach them and ask if they knew how gross and unhygienic that was, but I'm not a big person, and these women were all somewhat large and could have broken me like kindling, and luckily I hadn't had so much to drink that I was that foolish (my husband, of course, bet me $5 to say something to them).

All I could think of all night was fomites!

[nurseprnRN, BSN, RN]

for what it's worth, mrsa is no longer classified as "community-acquired" and "institutional-acquired" strains. they are both everywhere, and there are actually more than two anyway. "nosocomial" means "contracted as a result of being in the hospital," an infection that is acquired while hospitalized. could be the same old, same old bugs we all carry. it's not the one you have on your shoes as you climb into your car.

i just read a study saying that many, many people carry clostridium difficile ( our old buddy, c. diff.) in their guts; some people get sick from it, and some don't, and moreover, some of the people who get sick from it in the hospital do not exhibit strains that match other strains found on the same unit.

there was an interesting discussion on community bugs on another list lately- people were getting all upset about somebody wiping the seats and tabletop at a restaurant with the same rag, somebody else who won't set their silverware on the table at any restaurant, people in the supermarket deli who don't change their gloves all day, etc., etc. so somebody posted this:

assume for the most part that the writers have been buying food at those counters or restaurants for most of their adult lives, perhaps feeding children with those foodstuffs, and so on. now, how many deadly illnesses did they contract in these seething slurries of germiness?

there are plenty of studies to show that children who grow up with pets have fewer illnesses and fewer allergies. in the developing world, the incidence of pediatric atopy and asthma skyrockets in one generation after worms are eradicated from schoolchildren-- but not in untreated adults or neighboring populations who still carry their normal commensals. every first grade teacher can tell you which kids didn't go to preschool-- not because they don't know their numbers or letters, but because they spend their first year in a mixed population getting sick. in a recent cholera outbreak in a resort area in indonesia, about 200 people were affected, and the only ones that died, that did not respond to ordinary iv fluids and support, were the japanese, that notoriously germ-phobic culture, where every piece of clothing you can buy comes with embedded antimicrobials, where people wear masks on the subway, and doctors don't tell you what your diagnosis is. many, many studies show that the majority of people, men and women, do not wash their hands after handling or wiping their genitals in the toilet. if so, since we are in constant contact with humans, how come we aren't all down for the count with gi disease all the time? don't even get me started on our favorite germ-swapping practices, all related to reproduction and all pleasurable. there's probably a reason for that.

more studies are indicating that the immense numbers of chemicals, including antimicrobials, we are exposed to are --gee, i know this will come as a shock-- bad for us. the tremendous growth of resistant organisms-- heard of that? "kills 99.5% of household germs!" what are those other ones doing? multiplying, that's what.

so you ask for an extra napkin for your silverware? who handled that napkin between the dryer and your table, and how? so you put your silverware on the edge of your plate instead of your table? who handled the edge of that plate? or the silverware, for that matter? so you think there are "butt germs" on the vinyl banquettes at the country buffet? does your butt slide onto them, and then do you touch your pants, or your purse, or the car seat that your pants just sat on after your meal? does your hand that helped you slide into your booth then touch the salt and pepper? did the hands of the people who sat there before you arrived? do you touch the rails on stairs, the buttons on elevators, try on clothes in department stores? do you just get the sterile ones, or maybe did someone else touch them too? what did they do with their hands before that?

you can see where i'm going with this. actual pathogens are bad. i'm not advocating that we should go back to wells on the street corners that dispense hepatitis and typhoid with every bucket. i'm not saying we take semmelweiss and pasteur out of the medical and nursing curricula. i'm not saying we shouldn't change enteral feeding bags really often, give up scrubbing before surgery, forget glutaraldehyde in the endoscopy suite, use linens from off a hospital floor, or save money in surgicenters by making single-use vials and lancets multi-use.

but honest to god, this phobia about germs, all germs, is ridiculous. there's increasing evidence that your gut and skin bacteria (and btw, how did they get there and from where, huh?) have beneficial effects. people evolved to live with commensals like worms; our immune systems are built and maintained to work with that. if you don't let them do what they are on guard to do, they are weakened when we need them, or they go looking for something else to do, and that's when the trouble starts.

maybe we should start a campaign to have people stop washing their hands so much, in the interest of the overall public health. boost the collective immune system, and the whole population benefits. it's what immunization was before jenner-- exposure to germs makes your immune system make antibodies. so get out there-- pick your nose, scratch before you make dinner for your family, stick your fingers in the batter to taste it, then do it again. pat the dog, then form the meatballs and roll out the pie crust. don't panic if your kid has a permanent snot-nose the first three years of her life-- she'll probably never be sick much again. let your grandchild gnaw on your fingers even if you haven't just slathered them with alcohol gel first (come to think about it, how good is alcohol gel for a baby, anyway?) go play in the dirt, swim in a pond. it's a big bacterial-laden world out there. if you want a decent immune system, don't live in a bubble...or delude yourself that you can.

[Been there,done that, ASN, RN]

I so evereth agree-eth with that-eth!

[interceptinglight, CNA]

Yeah, every single one of them was at least 5'10". No joke. Next to them, I looked Lilliputian, and I'm not a particularly tiny person by normal standards.

Well that comes in handy when you gotta FIGHT!! FOR YOUR RIGHT!! TO PAAAAAAARTY!!!!

[fromtheseaRN, BSN, RN]

i'm with OP... i won't even touch my kids when i get home until i've changed and washed up. i wouldn't go out in my scrubs because i have no idea what's on me.

[Cathylady]

Maybe they were on the cleaning staff at a hospital which brings up the every ongoing debate about everybody and their brother wearing scrubs.

[0402]

Wow- I must really suck then- I walked in the door this morning, grabbed the kids and dropped all of them at school, in my scrubs. Then, I fell into a coma like state after doing 3 in a row with minimal sleep in between, got up and put on- yup- sweatpants, to go pick up my son (girls were already home). Scrubs and sweatpants- maybe I should head of to confession or something.

I honestly worry more about the people that I'm so close to on the Metro or on the bus. I'm tempted to wear a yellow isolation gown when using public transportation. I don't know what they have; at least with my pts, I'm given some information about what I'm dealing with.

As for going to a bar in "uniform" as a professional issue, this is an odd thing for one to have an issue with, for me. In my former life (and currently occasional life, as a reservist), I was/ am a Marine. Going to a bar, in uniform, after an event/ work was not unusual. Partaking of an alcoholic beverage while there was definitely the norm. Depending on company (and how you were getting home), how much partaking you did would vary. Anyone that ever said anything to us would generally comment with things like- thank you for what you do, and great that you can take a break with friends, having a sometimes stressful job. We were expected to keep control of ourselves (though I can't say that happened 100% of the time, and a counseling might ensue, but if it's not habit, it wasn't a huge issue).

[imintrouble, BSN, RN]

I'm regularly in the minority so today is no different. It seems we missed an important part of the equation. A group of friends were obviously enjoying themselves, each other, and their night out. What I would have seen is friends being friends. Comraderie. Community. Honestly I probably would have envied them just a little.

If our post work scrubs were that contagious, I would have killed off several dozen members of my immediate and extended family. But I have not.

Were they looking for attention? I don't know. But even if they were, what's the difference between them and the girl with purple hair, see through blouse, mini skirt, four inch heels............. Just a different kind of attention. Is it just me or are there some days you feel powerful, incredibly smart, privileged to do what we do?

On those days, I admit, the scrubs are like a neon sign that confirms that I am a really cool person with a really

cool job.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

I'm regularly in the minority so today is no different. It seems we missed an important part of the equation. A group of friends were obviously enjoying themselves, each other, and their night out. What I would have seen is friends being friends. Comraderie. Community. Honestly I probably would have envied them just a little.

If our post work scrubs were that contagious, I would have killed off several dozen members of my immediate and extended family. But I have not.

Were they looking for attention? I don't know. But even if they were, what's the difference between them and the girl with purple hair, see through blouse, mini skirt, four inch heels............. Just a different kind of attention. Is it just me or are there some days you feel powerful, incredibly smart, privileged to do what we do?

On those days, I admit, the scrubs are like a neon sign that confirms that I am a really cool person with a really

cool job.

Well said!!!!

[stefanyjoy]

Umm.. how do you know they weren't dental hygenist students or cosmetology students? they wear scrubs as well. I seriously doubt an entire group of nurses who were in contact with bodily fluids all day would wear their dirty scrubs to a bar. It is more likely they were either students or employed at a place that doesn't require getting "dirty". Either way, it's none of your business.

[silverbat]

While I agree that scrubs could carry a bunch of germs, I also agree that most will change out of the germy scrubs into less germy if a nasty mess occurs. The rest of the time, In my opionion, the scrubs aren't any dirtier than anyones clothing.

I work primarily in an office an wear scrubs. I guess eraser nobs and paper scraps could be contagious, but I doubt it. Do I go out in my scrubs, YES. I tend to be spontaneous, so if I am in scrubs and in the mood strikes, you never know what I may be seen doing... from going on a car ride, to going to a casino, or a bar or a grocery store, or Walmart!

Do I feel it is professional? Not really, but hey, I would rather be in my scrubs out having a good time, if the occasion presents its self.I take off my badge first, of course.

Yes, I will change clothes if at all possible first, but if not.....

On the germy issue..... Have you been to WALMART lately?????????? WHAT are some of those people thinking???!!!! HAVE YOU SEEN THEIR CLOTHES????? and DIRTY>>>> OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can think of few situations where my scrubs could possibly be any dirtiier that what I have seen in Walmart, etc.

We used to have a doctor come to the hospital on early rounds during hunting season wearing grimy, muddy hunting clothes and shoes.... hummmmmm how clean was that????

I guess esme12, and I and other like minded souls can just go out in our scrubs and party!!

[Flare, ASN, BSN]

Sure, it's none of my business.... and unless it were nurses in marked uniforms or wearing ID badges from the hospital that I ADN at, I certainly wouldn't say anything to them. But I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to wear your scrubs to any old bar you wish to.

[CompleteUnknown]

I don't think scrubs are necessarily dirtier than any other clothes and I don't take my shoes off at the door or decontaminate when I get home so it's not the possible germ factor, it's that I think it looks unprofessional.

Of course nurses can go out and party and of course not everyone in scrubs is a nurse, but I still think it's best to change first. Obviously many do not agree. I think my position on this comes from being a crusty old bat where when I was raised up it was practically the death penalty if it was discovered you'd been out in public in uniform. We were considered to be representing the hospital when wearing uniform.

What's interesting is that I would go to a coffee shop with a friend after work without changing, but I definitely wouldn't go to a bar/pub without changing. I guess I AM judgemental!