Where are the men? - page 7
Why haven't more men entered the field of nursing over the years? Nursing remains at 94.6% female.... Read More
Aug 5, '03Okay I have worked in a hospital in the past as a security officer. I have been around nurses for awhile,and you have to love them. That goes for females and males. I am 6'3, 315lbs, very broad shoulders, yes I am a amputee but it will never stop me. I have one thing to say to anyone who feels they need to degrade a fellow nurse around me whether the nurse is male or female..... Be careful of what you say, and who you say it too... NURSES are HUMAN BEINGS!!!!! I will flex my muscle to help any nurse. I was a cop before and while I am a amputee to this day... We leave the way we came.. In one piece. That is mentally and physically..... So any future docs or regular folks who forgot what they momma taught them... BE CAREFUL!!!! All nurses aren't 5'2, 175lbs. We are getting bigger,better,and we all aren't ashamed to be called a NURSE... oh yeah who happens to be a male. Sorry to those I may have offended, but you are talking about a profession that I am falling in love with more everyday. So I may get a little mouthy at times,but things will change. We must all be strong and remember what we got into this profession for????? MALE OR FEMALE
Aug 6, '03Cheerfuldoer- I so agree but why do you bring god into this? I'm sure she approves of men in nursing
My husband is an ER/ trauma nurse and let me tell you he gets a harem of pretty cowokers and priviledged status where he is. I mean the crap that he gets away with! I have definitely noticed that:
1. He has the (female) nurse managers at his beckon call 24-7.
2. He has successfully challenged doctors, administrators and even patients in ways which would get me straight up fired y'all.
3. People are always asking him why isn't he a doctor or encouraging him to pursue his studies even though I'm the one with the high grade point average and the excellent evalluations (me, bitter, noooooooooo!)
So in conclusion I don't really understand why men haven't taken up nursing cuz boy they sure do get benefits that we don't.
Perhaps it's cuz:
1. They're still not *as* used to being a caretaker for 12 whole hours in a row
2. There is a slight social stigma associated with men in nursing
3. As previously mentioned, it reverses the traditional power paradigm (man on top, woman on bottom) and that can be very disturbing when they realize that they have to adapt to a feminine culture
4. In fact women nurses are actually ex-CIA agents who are engaged in a conspiracy to eliminate the male species. Everytime a male nurse arrives, we quickly devour him and recycle the remains into cafeteria meatloaf.
Aug 6, '03I have read over all the comments, and see the same general trend of who done what to whom etc, etc.
My heart felt feeling of why more men are not in nursing, is.......fear.
Men don't like to look into their own insecurities. Men are afraid of raw soft emotions, and have trouble coping with emotional pain, tears, suffering.
I am making broad assumptions here, but that is a major prohibitive for a lot of men to enter the traditional woman's career field. I see men in our ranks that have overcome many of the stereotypes we learned as children. This allows men to go into emotional fields. Docs don't face the same issues as nurses, and that is why men dominate that field. they do not have to "really" interact with other humans. They are self important officers of the medical world.
We male nurses, have at one point or another, had to seize ourselves, and see our emotional weaknesses. That may be an oversimplification, but true nevertheless. Male nurses will always be few, because it takes a special man to do what we do.
Be proud girls, what comes natural to you, we guys have to find in our bucket of snakes & snails & puppy dog tails.
NOW, that I have dispelled all that psyche stuff on you, I do agree with what much of you said. Having been an RN for almost 12 years I have seen all of what has been stated on this thread. The most constant issue I feel when working with my female counter parts is a lack of solidarity. As women, as nurses, as employees, women can not bring themselves together under one cause.
If women could, WE nurses would be the most powerful lobby in the country. We would control health care. Our wages and benefits would double, and our profession would gain respect of all male based career fields. What I speak of is simple unity. Unity to realize that WE ARE NURSES, and baby there ain't nuthin like us when we stand together.
When was the last time your unit stood together on an issue???
I mean stood together despite seniority, or position, or sex.........I'll bet never.........I know never!
If we ever gain the will to stand unified, men will move to this field, and women will gain greater pride in this profession.
" Those that refuse to remember the past, are doomed to repete it"
Aug 6, '03I think that it would be really appropriate to have special interest groups for males in nursing that cultivate and attend to the specific needs of men (including, say, recruitment of other men). In a previous (misguided) life, I was an engineer (very male dominated profession). Well the Society of Women Engineers (SWE), was very effective at providing a safe place for women engineers to grow and receive support from their peers.
I cannot pretend that I know what it's like to be a male nurse...
I imagine I'm lucky because in the ER I have lots of pretty boys to look at
MedicineMan please tell me I'm misunderstanding your point... are you attributing the lack of unity in nursing to the female gender? If so, I suggest you go to a NOW meeting sometime. I assure you the women's rights movement in this country was executed by very unified and well organized women.
Several different posters have made points along the lines of "X is wrong with the nursing profession and nursing is female dominated, therefore a female sensibility is the cause of X" beware of your logic, my friends.
Aug 6, '03OK,
HOW THE HECK DO I FIND THE POSTS SENT TO ME. I CLICK THE BLUELINE BUT NEVER SEE ANYTHING SAYING IT IS IN RESPONSE TO MY ENTRY.
LIKE RIGHT NOW "MEDICINEMAN" HAS SOMETHING FOR ME. WHERE?
Aug 6, '03WHOA NOW,
Please reread my post. I stated WE, not she or he. I asked nurses to look to themselves with the question of solidarity. As for any other meaning, it is simply NOT implied.
Do not include me in a he vs she arguement, I will not participate......period.
PS: Louie I did not send you a PM
Aug 6, '03Originally posted by gaspassah
well. ahem. my 2 cents. from this males perspective.
nursing is female dominated, female slanted in the educational system because it was started by.....females, at a time when women were ment to be subservient.
nurses constantly rant about respect. how they dont get it from administation and how they dont get it from mds. that is because from day one, nursing has never been anything but a glorified gofer role, and they never stood up to abuse doled out by mds.
md" nurse get me this, get me that" give the patient this and give them that. "
nursing never had a foundation that said "my actions affects the patients in this way". only when you F@##up does anyone care what your actions were.
physicians are based on outcome. treatment = results. thousands of years of science based treatments to achieve positive patient results.
nurses attempted to form some kind of "science" to base their actions on but "ineffectual coping realted to disease process" really doenst seem to matter when they got pints of blood spewing out their butt or face. dont get me wrong,, high risk for decubitous related to skin shear is important in some respects, but when your at the bedside all night with a patient on vent, dopamine, levophed, swann ganz, and gettin blood, is that really so important, or is the minute change in breath sounds that may suggest decreasing heart function, or drop in urine output, or suddenly the ng tube is putting out blood that wasnt there earlier more important in that patients outcome.
nurses are paid to notice changes (as someone put it earlier.) and report those changes, or treat them if it falls into your scope of practice:and there must be a way to convey that issue to the powers that be in nursing and medicine.
it is nearly impossible to break decades of ingrained thought processes from the way nurses think of nursing and how medicine thinks of nursing.
when your foundation was bedbaths and bedpans there is not much to go on from there.
nurses do not prescribe and do not diagnose. so what is left for us. we attempt to scienceify nursing with nursing diagnoses, but arent most of these just common sense. dont you turn your patients they cant turn themselves. dont you encourage nutritional intake if they are old and weak. do we really need "scientific" nursing diagnoses to tell us what really should be obvious.
im not the most touchy feely guy in the world, but dont you listen to people when they have problems. do they really need a diagnosis of altered coping before someone listens to them.
until you can tell the doctor or your administrator that YOU yourself saved someones life because you recognized the s/s of hypoglycemia made a decision about it and acted on it, will you begin to get respect.
when the md comes in and wants to know labs, do you tell them where they are, or do you tell em what they are and show that you are involved in that patients care enough to keep up with whats going on.
dont get me wrong there are plenty of times i feel like a pill pusher and foley flipper, but i never let anyone talk "down" to me or treat me with disrespect. i found this job when i was looking for one, i'll find the next job when i go looking for it.
empower yourself with knowledge, about your patients, their disease, their treatment and your skills, and dont take any s#$$ because your "just a nurse". man or woman
these are my most humble opinions.
I like your style.........Well put
Aug 7, '03Originally posted by roxannekkb
I honestly think that men would give nursing more backbone and clout. While there are some great female nurses out there, standing up for nursing and fighting for better working conditions, the bulk still seems to be more interested in complaining amongst themselves, backstabbing, and getting into those catty "girl" situations.
edit>> Join the Guys Club --> http://allnurses.com/t41581/s.html
Aug 7, '03CHICAGO!!!!!
Ya gotta hit the ghetto ER's.
And you are right, GOSSIP AND BLAME, RIGHT AND WRONG are the first things we teach our children about and look at 'em.
It's all about food!!!
Aug 7, '03"The most constant issue I feel when working with my female counter parts is a lack of solidarity "
The fact that you used the term female sort of emphasizes the implication that you are attributing the solidarity problem to being female, you see? I am really not trying to pick on you, just clarifying what you meant, that's all.
When people are talking about unity, I think they confuse two distinct problems in nursing:
1. Unprofessional, backstabbing interpersonal behavior and,
2. The absence of a "unified" grassroots advocacy movement among nurses
Frankly, I think it's a real stretch to claim that the two are related.
It is actually my opinion that the nursing profession generally but not exclussively favors a passive, congenial personality type in a darwinian way regardless of gender. This personality typically is very uncomfortable with "rocking the boat" or otherwise challenging the hard core power hierarchy that we all know still exists.
Something else I've noted (and please correct me with your experiences if I'm wrong) is that there isn't a consistent combination of both management and clinical education among nurse managers. This leads to poor leadership and the unprofessional atmosphere so many of us suffer.
Aug 7, '03As a male nurse, I am glad to see the numbers of men increasing. Certain areas of nursing, however do attract more guys such as ER and ICU. Having worked in trauma ICu and flight nursing, I have almost always worked with a lot of male nurses.
I think nursing may not be attractive to many guys out there because of the limited salary cap and the stigmas that surround the nursing profession. I think things will continue to evolve and more men will enter the profession. A good mixture of male and female nurses will strengthen the nursing profession as a whole.
Aug 8, '03bluesky,
I cannot believe you really are "unaware" of any lack of unity in the ranks of nursing.
If the profession is female dominated, and there is a lack of something, to who's feet should the problem be lain? Not blamed, but acknowledged to be a a contributor
I am not woman bashing, only stating an issue to which most of my female colleagues agree. The cliche " we eat our young" has been used by several ladies I work with. If more nurses were interested in organizing a "real" network of alliance then I would lean towards your opinion, but when I witness indecision over what color of the unit should have. I must stay with my conclusion that has repeated itself for over a decade.
I have worked in union facilities, and worked thru a union vote. I have seen real skepticism in my female counterparts when they are asked to commit to risk. Men traditionally have been risk takers, and that has led to better jobs. As long as women in nursing refuse to embrace the ideologies of unionization, then the profession will suffer.
I know some nurses who were instrumental in rallying support for unity. I must say that they were rare as well. I am sorry if I am irritating some with my statements, but they are based on truth, and experience in the ranks.