Where are the men?

happystudent, RN · Aug 7, 2003

Originally posted by gaspassah
well. ahem. my 2 cents. from this males perspective.

nursing is female dominated, female slanted in the educational system because it was started by.....females, at a time when women were ment to be subservient.

nurses constantly rant about respect. how they dont get it from administation and how they dont get it from mds. that is because from day one, nursing has never been anything but a glorified gofer role, and they never stood up to abuse doled out by mds.
md" nurse get me this, get me that" give the patient this and give them that. "

nursing never had a foundation that said "my actions affects the patients in this way". only when you F@##up does anyone care what your actions were.

physicians are based on outcome. treatment = results. thousands of years of science based treatments to achieve positive patient results.

nurses attempted to form some kind of "science" to base their actions on but "ineffectual coping realted to disease process" really doenst seem to matter when they got pints of blood spewing out their butt or face. dont get me wrong,, high risk for decubitous related to skin shear is important in some respects, but when your at the bedside all night with a patient on vent, dopamine, levophed, swann ganz, and gettin blood, is that really so important, or is the minute change in breath sounds that may suggest decreasing heart function, or drop in urine output, or suddenly the ng tube is putting out blood that wasnt there earlier more important in that patients outcome.

nurses are paid to notice changes (as someone put it earlier.) and report those changes, or treat them if it falls into your scope of practice:and there must be a way to convey that issue to the powers that be in nursing and medicine.

it is nearly impossible to break decades of ingrained thought processes from the way nurses think of nursing and how medicine thinks of nursing.

when your foundation was bedbaths and bedpans there is not much to go on from there.

nurses do not prescribe and do not diagnose. so what is left for us. we attempt to scienceify nursing with nursing diagnoses, but arent most of these just common sense. dont you turn your patients they cant turn themselves. dont you encourage nutritional intake if they are old and weak. do we really need "scientific" nursing diagnoses to tell us what really should be obvious.

im not the most touchy feely guy in the world, but dont you listen to people when they have problems. do they really need a diagnosis of altered coping before someone listens to them.

until you can tell the doctor or your administrator that YOU yourself saved someones life because you recognized the s/s of hypoglycemia made a decision about it and acted on it, will you begin to get respect.

when the md comes in and wants to know labs, do you tell them where they are, or do you tell em what they are and show that you are involved in that patients care enough to keep up with whats going on.

dont get me wrong there are plenty of times i feel like a pill pusher and foley flipper, but i never let anyone talk "down" to me or treat me with disrespect. i found this job when i was looking for one, i'll find the next job when i go looking for it.

empower yourself with knowledge, about your patients, their disease, their treatment and your skills, and dont take any s#$$ because your "just a nurse". man or woman

these are my most humble opinions.

I like your style.........Well put;)

agent · Aug 7, 2003

Originally posted by roxannekkb
I honestly think that men would give nursing more backbone and clout. While there are some great female nurses out there, standing up for nursing and fighting for better working conditions, the bulk still seems to be more interested in complaining amongst themselves, backstabbing, and getting into those catty "girl" situations.
.

Thats what I fully intend to do.

edit>> Join the Guys Club --> https://allnurses.com/t41581/s.html

Louie18 · Aug 7, 2003

CHICAGO!!!!!

Ya gotta hit the ghetto ER's.

And you are right, GOSSIP AND BLAME, RIGHT AND WRONG are the first things we teach our children about and look at 'em.

It's all about food!!!

agent · Aug 7, 2003

Ghetto ER's.. not sure how pc that is

bluesky, BSN, RN · Aug 8, 2003

"The most constant issue I feel when working with my female counter parts is a lack of solidarity "

The fact that you used the term female sort of emphasizes the implication that you are attributing the solidarity problem to being female, you see? I am really not trying to pick on you, just clarifying what you meant, that's all.

When people are talking about unity, I think they confuse two distinct problems in nursing:

1. Unprofessional, backstabbing interpersonal behavior and,

2. The absence of a "unified" grassroots advocacy movement among nurses

Frankly, I think it's a real stretch to claim that the two are related.

It is actually my opinion that the nursing profession generally but not exclussively favors a passive, congenial personality type in a darwinian way regardless of gender. This personality typically is very uncomfortable with "rocking the boat" or otherwise challenging the hard core power hierarchy that we all know still exists.

Something else I've noted (and please correct me with your experiences if I'm wrong) is that there isn't a consistent combination of both management and clinical education among nurse managers. This leads to poor leadership and the unprofessional atmosphere so many of us suffer.

TraumaNurse · Aug 8, 2003

As a male nurse, I am glad to see the numbers of men increasing. Certain areas of nursing, however do attract more guys such as ER and ICU. Having worked in trauma ICu and flight nursing, I have almost always worked with a lot of male nurses.

I think nursing may not be attractive to many guys out there because of the limited salary cap and the stigmas that surround the nursing profession. I think things will continue to evolve and more men will enter the profession. A good mixture of male and female nurses will strengthen the nursing profession as a whole.

MedicineMan · Aug 8, 2003

bluesky,

I cannot believe you really are "unaware" of any lack of unity in the ranks of nursing.

If the profession is female dominated, and there is a lack of something, to who's feet should the problem be lain? Not blamed, but acknowledged to be a a contributor

I am not woman bashing, only stating an issue to which most of my female colleagues agree. The cliche " we eat our young" has been used by several ladies I work with. If more nurses were interested in organizing a "real" network of alliance then I would lean towards your opinion, but when I witness indecision over what color of scrubs the unit should have. I must stay with my conclusion that has repeated itself for over a decade.

I have worked in union facilities, and worked thru a union vote. I have seen real skepticism in my female counterparts when they are asked to commit to risk. Men traditionally have been risk takers, and that has led to better jobs. As long as women in nursing refuse to embrace the ideologies of unionization, then the profession will suffer.

I know some nurses who were instrumental in rallying support for unity. I must say that they were rare as well. I am sorry if I am irritating some with my statements, but they are based on truth, and experience in the ranks.

karenG · Aug 8, 2003

have to say I agree with medicine man- htere is a distinct lack of unity within our ranks! I spent many years as an ophthalmic nurse- and was always treated with distain by other nurses because they thought we did nothing (thats why my hands were so red they used to bleed!) Even now I am working in the community, hospital nurses seem to think that I work in general practice because its an easy option (I wish!) I am now an asthma specialist- so why is the newly appointed asthma liason nurse trying to set up asthma training day for me?? she hasnt actually spoken to me to find out at what level I am working- she has assumed that I know nothing! grrrrr sorry - this has turned into a vent, didnt mean it to!

what I am trying to say is that nursing is a female dominated profession- for what ever reason. I welcome men- they bring a new dimension and I think there is less in fighing when there are men around. But until nursing is taken seriously as a profession and we are paid accordinly with all the working conditions that go with it, men will remain a minority. lets face it, nurses are seen to be angels with a vocation who dont need to eat/pay bills ect(tongue firmly in cheek) so if we united as a profession and stopped all the in fighing maybe we might get that recogition. Then maybe we might get more men in the profession. We might also have more nurses of whatever shape, form, sex, colour! Over here, the last cohort of nurses to qualify locally was in June. Half the group have left the profession to join the police. Why? Because they can earn £10000/year more as a policeman! Plus the police get housing allowances, dental care, eye care. sadly it was mostly the men who left and I dont blame them. Just wish it didnt happen!

ok off the soap box!

Karen:D

funnygirl_rn · Aug 8, 2003

Great posts MedicineMan & KarenG. My sentiments exactly!