Where are the men?

Tilleycs · Aug 1, 2003

Another man here. :) I'm a contractor in the computer field (currently getting my nursing prerequisites out of the way), so I've worked at a lot of companies over the years. I've had managers who were men, women, straight, gay, married, single, parents, not parents, etc. You name it, I've probably worked with or for it. I personally could care less what their gender (or anything else) is, I just want them to be a GOOD manager. She could be a card-carrying member of local chapter of the DEALNBCC (Dyslexic Eskimo Amputee Lesbian Nazi Biker Chicks for Christ) for all I care - a good manager is a good manager.

I do see cheerfuldoer's point about men having problems working under women, though, and I'm sure that's the case for some people (just like some people have a problem with working under someone who is younger, a different race, etc.).

My girlfriend is a nurse, and I have to admit that it's discouraging to hear about all the cattiness, gossip, and backbiting that goes on among the women. I think it's a shame and a waste of the time and talent they probably have. It's not nearly as prevalent in the IT field, maybe because it's mostly men. We just have little interest in stuff like that.

I don't worry about whether people will wonder if I'm gay or not (I seriously doubt I'll set off anyone's "gay-dar" :)) or having to "spin" what I'm going into. Hey, at least people will KNOW what I'll do as a nurse! Now when I tell people that I'm a technical writer, I usually get a strange look before they ask, "What's a technical writer?" :) I just tell them that I write the manuals that no one reads but every complains about. :)

I appreciate Deb's post, too - those who belong in nursing have found or will find their way there. If it's mostly female but that's the way it works best, so be it. I'd rather have it be that way than try to change it to meet some quota, and mess everything up.

allnurses Guide · Aug 1, 2003

DEALNBCC . . . . :chuckle

Tilleycs . . you are good.

I asked all the men here in my house (excluding the toddler) about their image of nursing. They were all a little careful knowing I'm pretty opinionated about my career but unfortunately I still got things like "I wouldn't want to wipe people's butts" and "Male nurses are looked at as gay". sigh . .

Ya know, the nursing image is a tough image to convey.

Changing the name of what we do seems a little sneaky to me. If you are gonna be a nurse, be proud of being a nurse. Don't hide behind a little title change.

I like Deb's post too . . . the people who want to be nurses will find their way there. Why mess things up with quotas?

There IS an atmosphere of cattiness and gossip and backbiting among women . . which is another subject and one that I'm starting to do some research on since I have an almost 14 year old daughter who is in junior high and oh my gosh the cattiness and backstabbing and gossipy behavior starts early and with a vengence.

steph

DMR1 · Aug 1, 2003

"Plus men want a career that they can support a family with, nursing isn't that career"

are you talking about pay or time? Some places in Canada pay really good, like Sk where I"m from. The pay isn't bad, you start at around $24/h for new grads. maybe $23. I know a few nurses that make more than enough money

gaspassah · Aug 1, 2003

a man here. with just a few opinions.

i work in an icu that has 18 guys out of 26 nurses. female nurse manager, she is much better than the male one we had before. those nurses who are the most "squeaky" (as in squecky wheels) are females. when all men work together, teamwork is the norm not the exception. females, complain how busy they were all day but yet most of the work goes undone (at my facility, NOT everywhere). i have worked parttime jobs where the nurses would let you drown vs lend a hand, never had it happen when i worked parttime with men. i got into nursing to go to crna school. many men use nursing to do the same, or sell drugs or orthapedic supplies etc.

men do not like to be talked down to. this often causes problems because when it happens the male wont take any #@#, so the md complains to nursing director, who complains to nurse manager who comes down on you. only when you are stone cold right do you have any recourse, sometimes that doesnt even matter, you have a bad attitude lable is already attached. if you stand up for yourself against coworkers or management your a bully, or once again have a bad attitude.

everyone talks about the nursing organizations and what they do. i have never seen where they impact the nurse at the bedside. how about all nursing orgaizations come togther under one umbrella like the ama and use that size and potential voting block to lobby for better conditions, patient ratios etc. there seems to be little organization at the national level.

just my thoughts, please dont feel offended i'm just speaking from my experience.

d

mattsmom81 · Aug 2, 2003

A perfect example of why men don't stay in nursing:

We had to call a pulmonologist in after hours the other night. He was doing his usual scapegoating, bytching to the staff, complaining he had to come in, nitpicking us to death, etc. My male coworker (an excellent contract nurse) heard him carrying on at me in the room and walked in. I was ignoring the doc for the most part, setting up for Swan, Aline, stabilizing the patient, etc.

John said to him "Ya know, when I'm on call, I just come in and get to work. How come you get to make those big oncall bucks then come in here and act like a jackazz when we're just doing our job?"

The doc was stunned and John is MY hero!! I had gotten into a rut, ignoring jerky docs. He said what should have been said. Guys get sick of putting up with this stuff day after day though, and he is already planning his exit from nursing, and it's too bad, cuz he's one heck of a nurse. :)

If we had more men in our field I believe our profession would get better just from their mere presence. So welcome, guys, and hope ya stay!:)

live4today, RN · Aug 2, 2003

Right on to John! :kiss Good for him for speaking up on your behalf! Women need to take a strong stand in that direction and speak up for ourselves. We are still more than a little intimidated around men in positions of power.....like doctors with big heads as big as their you know whats. :rotfl:

Another reason for having more males in nursing is because simply......we need men at home and at work. Goes back to my original thread comments about men being designed to be our "umbrella" of protection...a shield over us in times such as this.........men relate to men better.....women sometimes relate to women better.......although men seem to relate to me and I them better than any woman relates to me or me them.

sjoe · Aug 2, 2003

Gas--good points.

FutureRNMichael · Aug 2, 2003

Excellent discussion in this post.

I almost look forward to dealing with these types of things as a Male.

Working as a caregiver now with all women expect one male... I have good experience with working with women. I love women of all shapes,sizes,ages so much that I cannot wait to work with them.

Although, I do find women somewhat harder to work with in general. You never know what kinda response you will get from the ones I work w/ and they are not as likely to help on a consistent basis compared to the males I have worked with. And the gossip,bickering and overall snappiness of them is pretty funny, in a crazy kinda way!

Interesting stuff.

bedpan · Aug 2, 2003

As an SPN of course I have not had experience in working as a nurse with male or female, but find my fellow students who are female extremely helpful and easy to get along with.

I did work in an Industrial plant for several years alongside many females who were treated as equal to the males - equal work and equal pay for all regardless of gender - My personal dealings as a male of working with and for a female is basically they are all the same to me - I had coworkers of both genders who were very helpful and those who were, for lack of a better word just simply asses, both genders had those who were hard workers and those who were as lazy as a person can be - In other words, basically in the workplace to me all are equal and seperate themselves in my view by what they do or do not do

The same goes for working for a female, to me it doesn't matter to me who is over me as long as they don't just know their "stuff" (meaning knowing not just what I am having to do but also know how to do it themselves) but also KNOW HOW TO BE A SUPERVISOR!!! Having people work under you can be a huge challenge because it doesn't just mean being in charge of someone but more working with them IMO! Not everyone can do it successfully.

I honestly have seen more women who have a stronger gender bias as far as working under a male/female supervisor - Many I have discussed this with stated they would much rather work for a male supervisor than a female one - Not all, by any means but many.

obeyacts2 · Aug 3, 2003

Our local ADN program graduates 20% males. My pre req classes have had plenty of guys. Interesting fact is the different career paths guys and women take going in to nursing. The women usually either were homemakers and are going back to school now that the kids are bigger or are working up from being MAs or CNAs. The guys are really something: they come from all different areas. Last semester we had a retired cop, a local building contractor, a military guy and a former accountant who now sprays bugs for a living....just to name a few. BTW most of these guys are NOT the gay stereotype. I hope the former cop has my back in the ER some day.

Laura

Geeg · Aug 3, 2003

I don't think we need to be concerned with getting more men into the profession. They don't stay at the bedside, where most of the abuse takes place, for very long. Plus, I think they are given an unfair advantage when they compete against females for management positons, soley due to gender.

ainz · Aug 3, 2003

Geeg!!! I am shocked that you would write such a thing!! :)

I started nursing 18 years ago. This thread kind of tells my life story in terms of being a nurse. I listened to many comments such as, "When are you going to medical school?" "This is just a stepping stone to medical school isn't it?" "Are you gay, only gay guys are nurses?" "Why are you doing women's work?"

Also being disrespected and looked down on by physicians, treated like an idiot by physicians, labeled as a trouble-maker because I did not just sit back and take it from the doctors. I stood up for myself and was vocal about things that just weren't right. I also witnessed entire staffs of all-but-me-female disintegrate and implode on themselves via gossip, vicious character assassination, petty fighting, telling on each other, and my all time favorite--writing each other up for the most idiotic and petty reasons.

Also saw, and still do, power hungry women flirting with doctors, bossing the other women around and throwing their weight around, gloating in all their power and glory (boy are they out of touch with reality--power and glory of a unit nurse manager?!?!).

I have felt, and known, at times that I did not get promoted because I WAS A MALE in a female dominated profession. I did leave nursing once because I was sick of everything that has been described in the thread. But I returned and went on to obtain a graduate degree and higher levels of responsibility and authority.

I love healthcare, I love hospital settings, I love everything about the concept of healthcare. There have been days I absolutely hated nursing and nurses in general because of all of the stuff as described in this thread.

When will we unite, join our association, organize ourselves, pull together, quit tearing each other down, and exert our power to find our rightful place in the healthcare system folks?????????

I have to comment as well that at first, I loved working with all those women. More times than not I was the only male in the bunch. When I was younger, single, and a little wilder, I had more dates than I can remember, it was great!! But after a few years, it began to really grate on my nerves, couldn't take it. Now it is OK because I work equally with men and women. Hate to say it but men seem to work together much better. If there is a problem, us guys usually just say it to each other's face and get it over with, either talk it out or fight it out but get over it and past it.