What we say and what we do.... - page 3

In the last couple of days/weeks, I have been noticing some things on this website that troubles me. On more than just a few occasions, I have read whole threads, where there is a "discussion", or... Read More

  1. by   Spidey's mom
    Quote from kanzi monkey
    I don't know if you are taking the word "troll" to mean some large, ugly anthropomorphic creature with a brain the size of a pea and a club the size of Florida--or the internet version of troll as defined by the master of uncertain definition:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

    this seems not quite as cruel, but more of a heads up--suggesting the poster was more of a trickster trying to get the masses riled up.

    This post made me smile . . . . gotta have a sense of humor.


    steph
  2. by   cardiacRN2006
    Steph, it made me laugh too!!



    That poster didn't have a lot of posts when that thread was ongoing. Also, many of her other posts were rude, and some of them were in locked threads.

    I might have thought her a troll as well just based on those things...
  3. by   ktwlpn
    Quote from CRNI-ICU20
    In the last couple of days/weeks, I have been noticing some things on this website that troubles me....
    On more than just a few occasions, I have read whole threads, where there is a "discussion", or difference of opinion being expressed...
    I notice in some of those threads that more times than not, when one person doesn't agree with the "crowd", the "crowd" then turns on the "outsider" or "non-agreeing one", and then comes in with personal attacks.....
    Comments that state things like: "I bet her patients are fearful"....or "brain anonmalies" or implying that only the "seasoned ones" have ultimate knowledge. There doesn't seem to be any free exchange of ideas from that point on. The one being attacked is hounded with questions about whether or not they have the "credentials" to back up their opinion, etc.
    I wonder about this. I wonder why nurses who talk about NOT EATING THEIR YOUNG, do so OPENLY on a public forum, all in the name of "education", and thn post on another thread about how wrong it is to eat their own young!
    I wonder why moderators don't put some sort of "kabosh" on people who repeatedly and personally attack people....not the IDEA, but the PERSON.....there is a distinct difference, but just like in most bullying situations, the onlookers tend to look the other way.....and I wonder why, when you have threads about lateral violence, and nurses bullying others, you allow that to happen here right under your eyeglasses, with nary a finger wag.
    It's one thing to express an opinion, and then step back when someone blasts that opinion with one of their own....
    It's quite another to make comments about a nurse's mental health, their brain capacity, labeling them as arrogant and then topping it off with " i don't think she has any experience.
    if she does, God pity her frightened, disoriented pts. " and calling this poster a "troll??"
    I don't care how passionate you are about some particular area of your work, by calling a fellow nurse a troll or brain damaged or dismissing her comments as "less than" because you don't agree with them, only diminishes YOU.
    I find it even more IRONIC that the many who attacked her were standing on their soapboxes squawking loudly about HOW TO COMMUNICATE WITH DISORENTED AND DEMENTED PATIENTS....
    If you have to resort to calling a fellow nurse a troll? what kind of communicator ARE YOU??
    I am ashamed to have read that thread....and even more ashamed to realize that it was participated in by so-called "seasoned" nurses....
    In my opinion, you should be able to conduct yourselves better....you want to be seen as professionals, and yet, here you are, calling another in your profession a troll, because she sees something differently....
    What do you suppose she took from this communication exchange???
    I don't think she even heard your point....she was still reeling from the frontal verbal punches you threw at her....
    You can kick me off the forum for this if you want. Or, you can let this be an opportunity for some here to offer an apology for getting out of line....jmho. crni
    CRNI- I have to quote you from another thread-
    "She's an adult, with a big communication problem and an even bigger personality problem....maybe she can find a job where she doesn't have to deal with people and can read the paper all day....
    Like maybe the dog pound, or a dispatcher's office for a Maytag repairman....or phone sex hot line in the middle of the Nevada desert...
    There is a certain criteria when it comes to working with the sick and elderly.....she clearly showed her employer and co-workers that she wasn't able to meet that criteria....."
    crni >>>>>>>>>It seems that you don't practice what you are preaching here on a consistent basis....My frustration with the thread in question was the inability of the person to which you are referring to open her mind.Those of us who work with the Alzheimer's population have to deal with the resultant chaos caused by people like her.They refuse to LEARN.I am learning and growing every single day-I watch and learn from everyone I come into contact with- both younger and more experienced nurses.I don't ignore someone because they may have less education them I do or less experience because they may have a valid point.I don't start picking apart someone's grammar or spelling to deflect the attention from the fact that I really don't know what I'm talking about. The vast experience of the posters on that thread is overwhelmingly against that poster's view point.She was like a 4 yr old holding her fingers in her ears and chanting " I can't hear you,I can't hear you" Calling someone a "troll" is internet speak for someone who enjoys baiting the crowd.No worse then telling a fellow nurse she should work in a dog pound ...This person clearly showed she is not capable of meeting the criteria required to work with the demented,IMHO---she should work on a phone sex line,right?
  4. by   nursemike
    Well, breakfast is going to be late, today. I'm having a hard time deciding whether this thread or the one sited on dementia is more interesting. I think the one on dementia is more useful to me in my practice, although in my work I'm usually dealing more with temporary delusional behavior s/p stroke or surgery.
    Since the dreaded "Eating their young" phrase has already been introduced, may I say that as I get more experienced and less young, I begin to believe that a little chewing can, at times, be instructive? I once wrote an article for an in-house newsletter entitled "Let's get catty!" (I have, as some may have noticed, ongoing issues with the use of "catty" to describe passive/aggressive behaviours, insofar as my own feline companions are hardly ever remotely passive in their aggression.) In said article, I advocated resolving conflicts by biting ones adversary on the ear, throwing them to the floor, and licking their face afterwards to make up.
    I can see the OP's (of this thread) concern, but I can also understand those who were irritated by what appeared to be condescension directed toward thoughtful and caring, experienced nurses. I also see a central problem all of us new nurses inevitably encounter, in that we have to evaluate whether our more experienced peers have simply become sloppy in their practice, or have learned to go beyond "book learning." Being an older new nurse, my inclination is to expect the best of my experienced peers, especially when what they are doing appears to work. Having, at times, been the voice of experience in another field, respect for experience comes pretty naturally to me--so what I have to keep reminding myself is that there can be no progress if we get too mired in "the way it has always been done." But a different person might need to be reminded that theory is no substitute for practice.

    Anyway, I have to agree that, on the whole, this forum is a pretty civil one (that is, I politely disagree with the OP) although I concede there are moments when frustration gets the better of us (licking the OP's face, so to speak.)
  5. by   teeituptom
    Quote from EricEnfermero
    No posts to that thread for nearly a year, so while that thread did have to be redirected by moderators a couple of times, I don't know that it really reflects much of the current "personality" of Allnurses.

    To request moderator action on a particular post, it is best to click on 'Report Post' so that it comes to our attention without the negativity being spread to other posts or threads. As volunteers, we're limited in the number of threads that we can read in a timely fashion. A few forums currently don't have any assigned moderators, so we're often doing it by committee. We rely on members to help us identify Terms of Service violations.
    they took the report post button thingee away
  6. by   donsterRN
    Quote from teeituptom
    they took the report post button thingee away
    The red triangle is in the upper right corner in each and every post.
  7. by   teeituptom
    Quote from Don3218
    The red triangle is in the upper right corner in each and every post.
    Is that what that is, I just thought it was cute all this time. It is kinda cutesey dont you think
  8. by   donsterRN


    I never thought of it as cutesy, but I'll look at it again!
  9. by   GeminiTwinRN
    I saw several posts by people in the dementia thread where people DID apologize.
  10. by   Multicollinearity
    I really think this thread is a common example of throwing the baby out with the bath water...not seeing the forest for the trees...etc.

    What I mean by that is this: internet forums tend to be vast septic tanks of vile behavior. Ever been on an AOL board or Yahoo board? I have. I needed to take a shower after leaving.

    So to pick and sift through threads in this nice and cordial place and whip negligible incidents up...? I think it's making a mountain out of a molehill.
  11. by   leslie :-D
    Quote from multicollinearity

    So to pick and sift through threads in this nice and cordial place and whip negligible incidents up...? I think it's making a mountain out of a molehill.
    especially where the questionable thread is a yr old.
    is that the most recent incident the op could find?
    if so, i think that's pretty, darned good.

    more importantly, i've been a member for 7 yrs now.
    from my heart, i find this bb to be one of the most supportive bridges i've yet to encounter.
    it never ceases to amaze me, the impassioned, intelligent personalities i've read and communicated with.
    i think that's why this particular bb is so addictive for so many.
    brian and his staff, command and show respect, by encouraging a liberated freedom to exchange our thoughts.
    the tos of service are crystal clear.
    however, some posts are 10 shades of grey.
    some posts, are seemingly angry but the words don't quite 'cross the line'.
    almost, but it's negligible.
    overall, i would say 98% of the debates, remain at the least, civil, and at best, highly productive.
    w/o a doubt, brian runs a tight ship.
    and i for one, am thrilled to be a member of the crew.

    now, i think i'll read this thread everyone is referring to.

    leslie
  12. by   CaLLaCoDe
    [mouse]
    Quote from earle58
    more importantly, i've been a member for 7 yrs now.
    from my heart, i find this bb to be one of the most supportive bridges i've yet to encounter.
    it never ceases to amaze me, the impassioned, intelligent personalities i've read and communicated with.
    i think that's why this particular bb is so addictive for so many.
    brian and his staff, command and show respect, by encouraging a liberated freedom to exchange our thoughts.
    the tos of service are crystal clear.
    however, some posts are 10 shades of grey.
    some posts, are seemingly angry but the words don't quite 'cross the line'.
    almost, but it's negligible.
    overall, i would say 98% of the debates, remain at the least, civil, and at best, highly productive.
    w/o a doubt, brian runs a tight ship.
    and i for one, am thrilled to be a member of the crew.

    now, i think i'll read this thread everyone is referring to.

    leslie
    [/mouse]DITTO leslie earle...you have been reading my mail. I could not have expressed my contentment with this sight and its people any better than you. From the bottom of my web space heart, thank you LESLIE!!!

    PS What better resource do I have than to gather understanding from everyone every time I visit this forum; really, I can't but help to introduce others to this site.
    Last edit by CaLLaCoDe on Sep 18, '07
  13. by   kanzi monkey
    "Since when is it okay to call a person a troll, (whatever your dictionary definition)"

    Sorry to harp on this, but I think you are missing the point about the "troll-calling"--people use the phrase "Internet Troll" to describe a person who is specifically trying to antagonize a group--that is, say things BECAUSE they are controversial for the sole purpose of upsetting people. "Internet Trolls" are not expressing true feelings or opinions. There are times when trolling is obvious--I've seen it a couple times on allnurses, but not much.

    Now, that said, it is certainly NOT nice to call someone an internet troll if they aren't positive that the person IS actually trolling. I think in the case of that thread, #8 COULD have been trolling, but it definitely wasn't a cut and dry case. If someone IS suspected of trolling, it's more appropriate to ignore them than it is to antagonize them as that's what they're going for.

    I think the reason people called this person a troll is because they actually believed that #8 was intentionally trying to rile them up just to get a reaction, which is really poor online etiquette. The following comments--about the brain anomaly and "being afraid for her patients" I sort of interpreted as being said by people who also felt that #8 was trolling.

    If someone is being a troll, then people caught in the cross-fire are the victims. But again, they are best ignored. The case with #8 was definitely ambiguous--but at the point that people started name calling she had definitely made rude comments and insinuations that other nurses were "lazy" and not doing a good job. I think the trolling question comes about when you look at what someone is saying and realize that it is undeniably something that is intended to hurt or offend another. There are things that #8 said that she could not have possibly posted without realizing that people were going to feel hurt or accused--not just because she was expressing another opinion, but because her tone and her words were directly confrontational.

    So, no, I don't think calling someone a troll is an effective way of dealing with that situation--if someone is, without question, a troll, the conversation should stop, and the thread discontinued. At the same time, I don't think that the people who DID call #8 names were doing it maliciously--I think they, unfortunately, had a difficult time controlling their emotions after reading the posts posted by #8, some of which are objectively offensive.

    Also, as far as attitudes on this board go, I have found that this forum provides a very civil dialogue between nurses with different kinds and levels of experience. We don't always agree, but I've definitely found this to be an extremely diplomatic group. Threads like the inflammatory one that you posted as an example, where one nurse is ostracized and people throw out names are the exception.

    You mentioned that you have seen a lot of this in the last few weeks--which threads are you talking about?

    -Kan

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