Seniority

[lexyrn71]

My faculty had adopted a new policy where seniority doesn't play a factor at all in obtaining new positions. A nurse who has only been there a year has an equal opportunity as a nurse who had been there for decades for any open position. The way a new position is chosen is through a peer interview. Whoever gets the most points when answering interview questions gets the position. I was wondering what other nurses thoughts are on this?

[caffeinatednurse, BSN, RN]

This is not a cut and dry issue. There are many gray areas to it.

Take for instance a nurse at my last facility. He had been there longer than anybody else. He was resistant to change in policies and procedures. He would flat out refuse do admissions to HIS unit and try to pawn it off on another nurse. He made multiple med errors on a weekly basis. He did NOT work well with other nurses. He regularly called off and went home early. In spite of all of that, he demanded to have 3-4 LENGTHY vacations every year so he could use up all of the PTO he had acquired. Is this fair? In this case, I don't think so. He's not a team player and he struggles to meet the minimal standards for his job. He forces management to cover for him during his vacations, which ultimately interfere with other staff and their time off. But he wants to play the seniority card when it best suits him.

When the manager position came open, he was the first one to tear down any promotions that management had in mind. He complained that he should have been their first pick, even though he did not possess the degree or license they were looking for.

That is the type of attitude that I've encountered. To me, that nurse seemed to feel more entitled than the new grads I was training. It wasn't until I started my new job that I realized where all of the seasoned nurses who are interested in keeping up their certifications and running circles around the newer nurses are...THOSE are the nurses that have my respect. Not the ones that hide behind the fact that they've been there the longest but aren't willing to do what's expected of them or their job.

[vintagemother, BSN, CNA, LVN, RN]

I'm a newer RN,

At my job, seniority guarantees the most flexibility re scheduled vacations, mandatory call offs due to low census, and moving to a different, more preferred shift.

I say, "I ain't mad atcha"!! And "can't beat them, join them" One day, I'll have seniority! 💕

[TriciaJ, RN]

This is not a cut and dry issue. There are many gray areas to it.

That is the type of attitude that I've encountered. To me, that nurse seemed to feel more entitled than the new grads I was training. It wasn't until I started my new job that I realized where all of the seasoned nurses who are interested in keeping up their certifications and running circles around the newer nurses are...THOSE are the nurses that have my respect. Not the ones that hide behind the fact that they've been there the longest but aren't willing to do what's expected of them or their job.

Exactly. I don't think anyone's making the case for seniority being the only criterion for advancement. Sounds like this guy has only been around the longest because no one ever fired him for his poor performance. His seniority should not be his golden ticket when he is clearly disqualified for a host of other reasons.

But there are situations where seniority is dismissed out of hand and popularity contests are used for advancement. Or managers hand-pick people whom they find malleable. Most of us with a few years under our belts think that seniority should be given at least some weight.

And yes, if the seasoned nurses are not willing to step up into leadership positions, they should be prepared to put their full support behind whomever is.

[nursel56]

Clearly you've had a younger manager that rubbed you the wrong way, personality wise.

I've yet to meet one like this. Most younger managers I've met are hard workers, very competent, a little competitive, and respectful of the experience and wisdom that more seasoned nurses bring to the table.

Yes, I know. I have encountered that behavior, but not all of it in the same person It was was actually a brief moment of exaggeration on my part after reading a post that contained several of the most hackneyed stereotypes about older nurses.

In all likelihood, most of us on this thread aren't like the extremes of either side. I would choose a younger manager who excels at their job over an experienced nurse who doesn't without hesitation.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Nursing is generational, and I actually find this to be a fascinating topic. It was discussed heavily at my old institution's preceptor course and charge nurse course because generational attitudes really do come into play in the nursing workforce because we have such a wide range of generations doing the same job.

I would never ask someone why they don't retire so others can have jobs. However, I challenge some of the older generation to look into what the new generation of workers is entering into, and the disadvantages they face. I came out with a BSN from a state school with over 25k in debt, and that's low compared to most. Housing prices in moderately large metro areas are well out of reach for the younger generation. Pensions and retirements are almost non-existant to new nurses. The worst part is that many of the older generation workers, frankly, don't give a crap about any of this. They just simply don't care, because all they see is "I worked for this" ignoring the fact that they had some things easier.

But I digress. I enjoy a thought provoking discussion on the matter, but I know it falls on deaf ears. All we can hope for is that the multi-generational nursing role can continue to grow and understand each other. It's not all about "me, me, me" on either end.

EVERY generation faces its issues. When I graduated in the early 80s, the inflation rate was through the roof and unemployment very high in my area. It's why I joined the military at 18. For opportunity and gainful work.

I have been through some amazingly tough times, working up the ranks, getting out, going to school on my GI BILL w/o a penny from anyone else. Pensions??? Ha. None have ever been offered in my working life EXCEPT military.

We Gen Xers never got em either. We were told 401K 403B whatever. Oh and I have been told over and over: DO NOT expect there to be ANY social security for you even though I have paid into over 30 years. How the heck is that fair? It's not. But I won't see the money I worked my ass off to earn and put into the pot.

The millennial generation does not have it easy, but it's not harder than when I grew up. Rise above challenges; don't lament them. We all have our stuff to deal with and have to work for those coveted jobs and promotions.

My job was not handed to me.....and it was not cause I was "older". I earned it.

You can do the same.

Quit waiting for the world to change; change it. It's YOUR future. But don't disrespect experienced nurses. We MAY just know a few things you don't. I have been 20, 30, 40 and beyond. You have not yet.

[bellini]

Seniority is a necessary but not sufficient criterion for promotion. To be qualified for a management position, you need a lot of clinical knowledge and experience and charge experience...and you cannot obtain that knowledge and experience without having put the time in. But... if you have spent twenty-five years doing the bare minimum to avoid being let go-and we all know some of those-then you should not feel yourself entitled to promotion and you shouldn't begrudge anyone else.

[klone, MSN, RN]

Seniority is a necessary but not sufficient criterion for promotion. To be qualified for a management position, you need a lot of clinical knowledge and experience and charge experience...and you cannot obtain that knowledge and experience without having put the time in.

Seniority and experience are separate ideas, though. There are nurses with decades of relevant experience, but are low seniority at a facility because their experience was at other facilities. My opinion is that seniority should not play a part in promotion. Relevant experience, skill level, and suitability for the role should. Sure, if everything else is equal, you should go with the more senior nurse. But in reality, that is RARELY the case, particularly for promotional opportunities. There is almost ALWAYS going to be a candidate that has better relevant experience and is just better suited for the role. Advancement should be based on merit, not years clocked.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Seniority and experience are separate ideas, though. There are nurses with decades of relevant experience, but are low seniority at a facility because their experience was at other facilities. My opinion is that seniority should not play a part in promotion. Relevant experience, skill level, and suitability for the role should. Sure, if everything else is equal, you should go with the more senior nurse. But in reality, that is RARELY the case, particularly for promotional opportunities. There is almost ALWAYS going to be a candidate that has better relevant experience and is just better suited for the role. Advancement should be based on merit, not years clocked.

I think the two are not mutually exclusive. What I mean is, if the senior nurse is equally qualified to the newer one, education considered, then the senior nurse should get the promotion.

If the junior nurse is better educated or more qualified, then yes, that person is the better candidate.

[RNNPICU, BSN, RN]

Something else to consider,

Having peer reviews instead of senority gives everyone a chance at a position. Just because someone has years of experience at a facility does not make them the most suited candidate. Many times those of us with years at a facility may be constantly reusing old ideas, or not moving forwards with changes, "fresh" ideas or concepts. It may be possible that a more junior candidate interviewed well and was able to provide new concepts and a vision or direction. Peer reviews also give all levels of staff a chance to view the candidate as a potential for the role

[Nurse SMS, MSN, RN]

I too would like to see the new policy, verbatim. I find it a little incredulous that this peer scorecard would be the ONLY criteria considered.

[RNNPICU, BSN, RN]

I too would like to see the new policy, verbatim. I find it a little incredulous that this peer scorecard would be the ONLY criteria considered.

Exactly. I have taken part in interviews with peer review as a prt of it. Everyone who I interviewed had the same score card that they used to make notes. I know this because I was told this ahead of time. The peer review is likely an aspe t of it. I think peer reviews are important because the "peers" could be a direct report. Both sides of the interview( the interviewers and the interviewee) can get a better understanding of roles and relationships

[HalfBoiled, BSN, RN]

I am in agreement for whoever is the best suited gets the job and/or advancement.

HOWEVER, I do believe seniority does need to play factor for certain scenrios

Alpha RN has been working for Hospital One's Medsurg unit for over 12 months (paid without benefits) and has yet to advance to Level 2.

Delta RN was hired after Alpha has just gotten off orientation (2 months) and was immediately promoted to a benefit position.

What is the difference?

Alpha was a new grad that has every certification relating to medsurg (BLS, ACLS, EKG, etc.). Whereas, Delta had 6 months of experience at a local SNF.