Seniority

[lexyrn71]

My faculty had adopted a new policy where seniority doesn't play a factor at all in obtaining new positions. A nurse who has only been there a year has an equal opportunity as a nurse who had been there for decades for any open position. The way a new position is chosen is through a peer interview. Whoever gets the most points when answering interview questions gets the position. I was wondering what other nurses thoughts are on this?

[SmilingBluEyes]

Ageism is alive and thriving on allnurses.com!

Seniority is a fair way to decide who gets to go to day shift, have preference in holiday scheduling, float, take mandatory overtime or get that vacation slot that four people have requested. Seniority used in hiring decisions or advancement . . . maybe not so much. However if someone has worked in the system for 20 years, their time of service ought to be worth something, and entitled young ones who want want they want right now and don't want to wait their turn frost me.

Yes to all of this.

Entitlement, thy name is NOT "Seniority" but impudence.

[brownbook]

I would like you to re-read your facilities new policy, and post here word for word what it says. If hires for new positions are based 100% on peer reviews, that is ridiculous, as other have posted.

I hope, assume, hires for new positions are based on a nurses education, extra certifications, work on committees, etc., A small percentage of credit given to how long a nurse has worked there.

You may be getting concerned over nothing. I've worked many areas in my 30+ career. Many nurses with years on the job are quite content to stay where they are, have no desire for new positions or advancement, (or headaches). Even staying on the 11 pm to 7 am shift was fine with them. They are quite happy to see younger newer employees eager to take the reins.

I was dragged kicking and screaming into an administrative job, no one else wanted it! Well....slight exaggeration, but I did not apply for it.

[klone, MSN, RN]

However ... the system described in the original post does not select the most qualified and best fit for the position either. It picks the most popular.

I feel like I'm reading a different thread than you. The peer interviewers assign scores to the various candidates. We do that, as well. All candidates are given the same questions, and they are scored on various things such as job knowledge, teamwork, personal responsibility, problem solving, longterm goals, etc. That's not a popularity contest, that is judging who is the best candidate based on their interview and the responses they give.

[klone, MSN, RN]

"Best" friends with management? "Best" brown-noser? "Best" at self-promotion (but not necessarily backed up by performance)? I've seen a lot of "best"s in my time; often very subjective and depends on who's measuring.

Best as in most qualified. I guess I thought that was self-evident.

[caffeinatednurse, BSN, RN]

If it means you start hiring the best people for the job instead of just the person who was there the longest, I see nothing wrong with it.

Ditto.

I was hired on as a nursing supervisor after working at a facility for just 4 months. Although the more seasoned nurses liked to gripe that I was still a newbie, none of them wanted to step up and be held accountable for the entire shift and staff. A few months later, I was their "favorite" supervisor - they would never admit to having a problem with me then!

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

But we aren't talking about holidays, paid time off, etc. We are talking about career advancements, and I'm sorry, but just because you worked somewhere a while does not mean you're the best person for a job. It's not ageism; it's just fairness. My point still stands: just because you have been a company for a while does not mean you're the best fit for a job.

And honestly, each shift needs a healthy mix of new and old on it. It isn't safe for an entire night shift staff of newbies compared to a veteran day shift.

And I believe I addressed career advancements by saying that seniority was not the best qualifier (at least not all by itself) there. As a tie breaker, definitely.

The OP was describing a system basing advancements on popularity, which isn't "fair" either. The most popular may not even be competent.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

I feel like I'm reading a different thread than you. The peer interviewers assign scores to the various candidates. We do that, as well. All candidates are given the same questions, and they are scored on various things such as job knowledge, teamwork, personal responsibility, problem solving, longterm goals, etc. That's not a popularity contest, that is judging who is the best candidate based on their interview and the responses they give.

Clearly you've never seen a system where peer interviewers "Decide who is the best candidate based on their interview and the responses they give." Unless the peer interviewers are completely impartial, the most popular do indeed get promoted. The most popular may not be the best candidate for the job, but if they have more friends on the interviewing committee, they "interview the best." The unknown candidate who may have the best qualifications, or the unpopular candidate who may be perfect for the job won't "interview as well" because they aren't already popular with the interviewing committee. Somehow, the most popular folks are always the ones who get picked for the committee, and they hire their friends . . . and you end up with one huge clique of two-year nurses making hiring decisions when they aren't even competent at their own jobs yet (or barely competent.) It's a bad system.

[NuGuyNurse2b]

Ditto.

I was hired on as a nursing supervisor after working at a facility for just 4 months. Although the more seasoned nurses liked to gripe that I was still a newbie, none of them wanted to step up and be held accountable for the entire shift and staff. A few months later, I was their "favorite" supervisor - they would never admit to having a problem with me then!

This. People who cling to the seniority model want to pick and choose when and where their seniority should apply, and when it doesn't. Our floor has horrible turnover and nobody wants to take the leadership role. So when the position is open and management approaches any one of the senior nurses, they all turn it down, but boy do they give their 2cents about any young one who is gunning for the spot.

[nursel56]

This. People who cling to the seniority model want to pick and choose when and where their seniority should apply, and when it doesn't. Our floor has horrible turnover and nobody wants to take the leadership role. So when the position is open and management approaches any one of the senior nurses, they all turn it down, but boy do they give their 2cents about any young one who is gunning for the spot.

Warning: not entirely serious stereotyping paragraph ahead:

I'm fine with younger managers. Just not the ones who snap their gum, flip their hair, gossip, check their Facebook every two seconds, tell patients "good job!" in an overly perky tone, and take the Myers-Brigg test waaay too seriously.

[klone, MSN, RN]

I'm fine with younger managers. Just not the ones who snap their gum, flip their hair, gossip, check their Facebook every two seconds, tell patients "good job!" in an overly perky tone, and take the Myers-Brigg test waaay too seriously.

That was a very specific description!

[Wuzzie]

. I would never ask someone why they don't retire so others can have jobs. However, I challenge some of the older generation to look into what the new generation of workers is entering into, and the disadvantages they face. I came out with a BSN from a state school with over 25k in debt, and that's low compared to most. Housing prices in moderately large metro areas are well out of reach for the younger generation. Pensions and retirements are almost non-existant to new nurses.

Hate to break it to you but we "oldsters" faced the same challenges as today's new grads. Sorry but that "disadvantage" is not unique to your generation. As far as pensions go you really want to know what sucks? Paying into a pension plan for years only to have it go "poof" just before you retire.

[caffeinatednurse, BSN, RN]

I'm fine with younger managers. Just not the ones who snap their gum, flip their hair, gossip, check their Facebook every two seconds, tell patients "good job!" in an overly perky tone, and take the Myers-Brigg test waaay too seriously.

Clearly you've had a younger manager that rubbed you the wrong way, personality wise.

I've yet to meet one like this. Most younger managers I've met are hard workers, very competent, a little competitive, and respectful of the experience and wisdom that more seasoned nurses bring to the table.