Seniority - page 2

My faculty had adopted a new policy where seniority doesn't play a factor at all in obtaining new positions. A nurse who has only been there a year has an equal opportunity as a nurse who had been... Read More

  1. by   Ruby Vee
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I am not entitled, but "older" and you're damn right I earned what I have gotten by experience, time put in and blood/sweat/tears.

    I find just as many "entitled" young ones who say to the older ones, (right here on this site no less) "why don't you retire so we get can jobs?" My answer: "when you pay my mortgage, utilities, food, etc YOU CAN HAVE IT". Til then, deal. We all worked for what we got and earned what we have now and never expected anyone to give it to us.

    Entitlement indeed.
    Ageism is alive and thriving on allnurses.com!

    Seniority is a fair way to decide who gets to go to day shift, have preference in holiday scheduling, float, take mandatory overtime or get that vacation slot that four people have requested. Seniority used in hiring decisions or advancement . . . maybe not so much. However if someone has worked in the system for 20 years, their time of service ought to be worth something, and entitled young ones who want want they want right now and don't want to wait their turn frost me.
  2. by   Glycerine82
    Quote from lexyrn71
    My faculty had adopted a new policy where seniority doesn't play a factor at all in obtaining new positions. A nurse who has only been there a year has an equal opportunity as a nurse who had been there for decades for any open position. The way a new position is chosen is through a peer interview. Whoever gets the most points when answering interview questions gets the position. I was wondering what other nurses thoughts are on this?
    I think the best nurse for the job should get it. If both nurses are equally qualified, it should go to the one who has been there the longest.
  3. by   klone
    Quote from TriciaJ
    Define "best".
    What do you mean? You don't know what "best" means in this context?
  4. by   That Guy
    Quote from TriciaJ
    Define "best".
    The most qualified person, not the one with most tenure. I don't understand how this is a hard concept to grasp.
  5. by   jadeclnc
    I believe it is discouraging when you witness nurses promoted for nothing more that popularity, not skills. It is so obvious that jobs are not based on skills or education but based on who is willing to say yes to management no matter what event comes up.
    They do not want the nurse who is a patient advocate. You must not question referral cases even though the nurse may know that patient is going to crash and may not be ready for discharge, their work up is based on insurance and ability to pay. If society believes they will receive the best care possible they may be wrong.
    Its difficult to obtain a report on a patient and the nurse has no idea what is required in a report. Many times they call report and get offended if you ask questions. Nurses can review policies at the facility but they forget if a sentinel event occurs their nursing license can be at stake. Nurses forget nursing standards and nursing ethics.
    Young and seasoned nurses can work together for the good of the patient, their healthcare staff and facility. Healthcare is a team effort but too many times the nurses feel entitled, become hostile when asked to provide the best care you can for every patient. Nurses should respect one another. As a nurse we care for patients in one of their most frightening times when they have little to no control.
    The reason patients are admitted to a hospital is because they need 24/7 nursing and medical care. Senior nurses have the same rules and they are necessary. If the nurse does not have the skill or the potential to learn and advance their knowledge. Nursing advancement should not depend on age or looks.

    Senior nurses
  6. by   TriciaJ
    Quote from klone
    What do you mean? You don't know what "best" means in this context?
    "Best" friends with management? "Best" brown-noser? "Best" at self-promotion (but not necessarily backed up by performance)? I've seen a lot of "best"s in my time; often very subjective and depends on who's measuring.
  7. by   llg
    Quote from klone
    Exactly this. I think the peer interview is an incredibly important part of the process. I am in favor of hiring the person who is the most qualified and best fit for the position, rather than the person who has been there the longest.
    However ... the system described in the original post does not select the most qualified and best fit for the position either. It picks the most popular.

    This thread has created a false dichotomy -- assuming that the selection must be based either 100% on seniority ... or 100% popularity. In neither system are the person's qualifications given any weight. Real life doesn't have to "all or nothing." It is possible to include a consideration (by the manager) of the person's qualifications, track record, experience level, etc. and also include a consideration of the existing staff's approval of the candidate. It doesn't have to be 100% "either - or."
  8. by   Cvepo
    Quote from Ruby Vee
    Ageism is alive and thriving on allnurses.com!

    Seniority is a fair way to decide who gets to go to day shift, have preference in holiday scheduling, float, take mandatory overtime or get that vacation slot that four people have requested. Seniority used in hiring decisions or advancement . . . maybe not so much. However if someone has worked in the system for 20 years, their time of service ought to be worth something, and entitled young ones who want want they want right now and don't want to wait their turn frost me.
    But we aren't talking about holidays, paid time off, etc. We are talking about career advancements, and I'm sorry, but just because you worked somewhere a while does not mean you're the best person for a job. It's not ageism; it's just fairness. My point still stands: just because you have been a company for a while does not mean you're the best fit for a job.

    And honestly, each shift needs a healthy mix of new and old on it. It isn't safe for an entire night shift staff of newbies compared to a veteran day shift.
  9. by   Cvepo
    Quote from SmilingBluEyes
    I am not entitled, but "older" and you're damn right I earned what I have gotten by experience, time put in and blood/sweat/tears.

    I find just as many "entitled" young ones who say to the older ones, (right here on this site no less) "why don't you retire so we get can jobs?" My answer: "when you pay my mortgage, utilities, food, etc YOU CAN HAVE IT". Til then, deal. We all worked for what we got and earned what we have now and never expected anyone to give it to us.

    Entitlement indeed.
    Nursing is generational, and I actually find this to be a fascinating topic. It was discussed heavily at my old institution's preceptor course and charge nurse course because generational attitudes really do come into play in the nursing workforce because we have such a wide range of generations doing the same job.

    I would never ask someone why they don't retire so others can have jobs. However, I challenge some of the older generation to look into what the new generation of workers is entering into, and the disadvantages they face. I came out with a BSN from a state school with over 25k in debt, and that's low compared to most. Housing prices in moderately large metro areas are well out of reach for the younger generation. Pensions and retirements are almost non-existant to new nurses. The worst part is that many of the older generation workers, frankly, don't give a crap about any of this. They just simply don't care, because all they see is "I worked for this" ignoring the fact that they had some things easier.

    But I digress. I enjoy a thought provoking discussion on the matter, but I know it falls on deaf ears. All we can hope for is that the multi-generational nursing role can continue to grow and understand each other. It's not all about "me, me, me" on either end.
  10. by   Davey Do
    Quote from RNperdiem
    many of the younger staff are way better than me. They join committees, gain certifications, are often in charge, become ECMO trained, and go for the hard assignments. Working full time and going full steam earned them their reputations.
    Great perspective, RNperdiem.

    I, too, was once young and pretty and intelligent and and energetic and driven. And sometimes, I believe that I was able move into positions with just that going for me.

    I had my fifteen minutes of fame.

    Now I'm old and ugly and imprudent and tired and lethargic. I am satisfied being a face in the crowd and doing the grunt work.

    I could have bid on the Administrative positions at Wrongway Regional Medical Center and, perhaps, even gotten them. I'm just not interested in doing that kind of thing anymore.
  11. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from That Guy
    Doesn't mean you are qualified for promotions/new positions
    But with my varied and long experience, I likely AM! And therefore, yes, my seniority SHOULD be considered as important. And fortunately, it did when I got my recent promotion. Yes, even if I say so myself, I did deserve it. I worked long and hard for it. I have seen with my own eyes when inexperienced people get promoted too soon, and it's not pretty for anyone, them or their staff. I would take an experienced person over someone without, hands-down, unless they are incompetent, which does happen at times.

    I don't fathom people wanting immediate gratification and not waiting their turn. The longer you are at it, the more likely you will succeed as you climb the corporate ladder. It's just a fact.
    Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Sep 7
  12. by   SmilingBluEyes
    Quote from Ruby Vee
    Ageism is alive and thriving on allnurses.com!

    Seniority is a fair way to decide who gets to go to day shift, have preference in holiday scheduling, float, take mandatory overtime or get that vacation slot that four people have requested. Seniority used in hiring decisions or advancement . . . maybe not so much. However if someone has worked in the system for 20 years, their time of service ought to be worth something, and entitled young ones who want want they want right now and don't want to wait their turn frost me.
    Yes to all of this.

    Entitlement, thy name is NOT "Seniority" but impudence.
  13. by   brownbook
    I would like you to re-read your facilities new policy, and post here word for word what it says. If hires for new positions are based 100% on peer reviews, that is ridiculous, as other have posted.

    I hope, assume, hires for new positions are based on a nurses education, extra certifications, work on committees, etc., A small percentage of credit given to how long a nurse has worked there.

    You may be getting concerned over nothing. I've worked many areas in my 30+ career. Many nurses with years on the job are quite content to stay where they are, have no desire for new positions or advancement, (or headaches). Even staying on the 11 pm to 7 am shift was fine with them. They are quite happy to see younger newer employees eager to take the reins.

    I was dragged kicking and screaming into an administrative job, no one else wanted it! Well....slight exaggeration, but I did not apply for it.
    Last edit by brownbook on Sep 7

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