NA's not professionals - page 5

I was the recipient of a complaint yesterday from another employee. An NA told me she had been called off before her shift and told on the phone that instead of having her work, the floor would run... Read More

  1. by   november17
    Quote from Mulan
    I have to disagree that without CNA's nursing would grind to a halt. Some places do not employ aides, primary care is done, with all aspects of the patient's care being done by the RN. The RN can do whatever the CNA and the LPN can do, but the CNA and the LPN can not do what the RN can do. Some places staff with all licensed staff only, either LPN or RN.
    Amen to that. I am an RN and I find myself reverting back to the CNA role at least several times an hour every single day.

    As a matter of fact, the last hospital I was at didn't have aides at all. It was just RNs and LPNs working together. Very rarely, there may have been a nurse extern floating around the unit.

    This thread is stupid. It's just a bunch of people arguing semantics of a word that has multiple meanings and definitions. The aide certainly needs to be shown the difference between the noun and the verb. Especially if she is taking offense to it. That's just ridiculous. When I was a CNA I heard RNs/LPNs referred to as professionals all the time. It never offended me. It sounds like the CNA in question has some sort of an inferiority complex.

    I think one of our first projects when I started nursing clinicals was writing a paper entitled, "The nurse as a professional." I remember it being a somewhat difficult assignment, and I think the instructors really wanted us to understand the concept.
    Last edit by november17 on Nov 16, '07
  2. by   cardiacRN2006
    Quote from Hellllllo Nurse
    I was a CNA for years, and I used to think that, too. Boy did I eat my words and learn how wrong I was. So will you. Give it time.

    So true, so true....and it seems like the longer you were a tech, the more words that you have to eat.

    I'm still working on it...**burp**
  3. by   itsmyturn
    Wow, it is amazing that people are treating each other like this, especially when no matter what school you went to, what you went there for, how much you paid or the title you received when completed, preached one single idea to everyone of you the entire time you were going to school for your training...

    That we are all a very important part of the health care team and that each member, whether it be the CNA, an LPN, an RN or a Dr, should work together as a team regardless of their differences
    to provide the best care possible because without each one of these PROFESSIONS, our job would be impossible and patients would suffer as a result. That is what I am being taught, to work as a team always.

    I know that each member of the team is important and everyone is a professional of some sort, because there are some things that the other may not know that another may know and it has nothing to do with your title and it is a shame that there are so many health care members out there riding on a power trip. I have many nursing friends and none of them act like you do...they say that there are different degrees of nursing but none of them deserve the lack of respect because they carry a certain title. Each are a step and without them under you or over you, your jobs would be a lot harder.

    So, that being said, I really wish that people in each step of the healthcare team could become more professional and stop bickering and understand that you need every single member of your care team to look good as a whole instead of a self-centered member spending all their time putting others in their places. So, when I become a professional of the healthcare team I will be working with, I am going to be there helping the rest of the people I work with get our patients better, I hope you do that to. That is the professional thing to do.
  4. by   leslie :-D
    i truly don't understand why some get hung up on others perceptions.
    i am a diploma nurse.
    whether i have my masters or associates, it doesn't change who i am.
    i behave professionally.
    isn't that what is most important?
    furthermore, i answer to myself, and God.
    that's it.
    if others do not view me as a professional by virtue of my title, who really has the problem?
    i'm very secure with myself and don't require validation.
    when you can truly respect oneself, everything else falls into place...
    and you don't sweat the small stuff.

    leslie
  5. by   Xbox Live Addict
    "Professional" has been so overused now that it is now a meaningless term. The workers at a local ice-cream/fast food restaurant are called "Hospitality Professionals." At the same time, I've seen plenty of MDs who act very "unprofessionally." Lawyers advertise on TV like used-car dealerships with lurid advertisements that are designed to inflame people's baser emotions.

    "Professionalism" is a very subjective term. Lawyers in 14th century Florence were considered professionals, and were members of the elite patrician classes, as were merchants and bankers. Physicians were not professionals, and were firmly in the lower classes. Nursing services in the 19th century were provided by prisoners and prostitutes. True, most hospitals were basically just there to quarantine the sick and dying to keep the "good folks" from catching whatever it was that made them sick.

    There are plenty of "technicians" around that have BA and BS degrees; there are plenty of "professionals" with associate's degrees and less. It depends on your status with your organization. The general label of "professional" is obsolete.

    My understanding of the term "professional" as it applies to health care is that it refers to the people who work in the offices and shuffle papers, and work 8-5 with a 1 hour lunch, weekends and holidays off with pay, regardless of their level of education. A CMA who works in an office at medical records is a "professional." The people who actually do patient care, who work the 7-3s, 3-11s, 11-7s, 7a-7p, 7p-7a, etc, plus weekends and holidays such as Christmas are just laborers, regardless of their education. An LPN or RN who works the floor is NOT a "professional."

    These aren't my terms, but just my perceptions of how things work in this world.
    Last edit by Xbox Live Addict on Nov 16, '07 : Reason: Clarification, proofreading
  6. by   mizfradd
    Quote from itsmyturn
    Wow, it is amazing that people are treating each other like this, especially when no matter what school you went to, what you went there for, how much you paid or the title you received when completed, preached one single idea to everyone of you the entire time you were going to school for your training...

    That we are all a very important part of the health care team and that each member, whether it be the CNA, an LPN, an RN or a Dr, should work together as a team regardless of their differences
    to provide the best care possible because without each one of these PROFESSIONS, our job would be impossible and patients would suffer as a result. That is what I am being taught, to work as a team always.

    I know that each member of the team is important and everyone is a professional of some sort, because there are some things that the other may not know that another may know and it has nothing to do with your title and it is a shame that there are so many health care members out there riding on a power trip. I have many nursing friends and none of them act like you do...they say that there are different degrees of nursing but none of them deserve the lack of respect because they carry a certain title. Each are a step and without them under you or over you, your jobs would be a lot harder.

    So, that being said, I really wish that people in each step of the healthcare team could become more professional and stop bickering and understand that you need every single member of your care team to look good as a whole instead of a self-centered member spending all their time putting others in their places. So, when I become a professional of the healthcare team I will be working with, I am going to be there helping the rest of the people I work with get our patients better, I hope you do that to. That is the professional thing to do.
  7. by   pagandeva2000
    Somehow, I have trouble wrapping my brain around considering nurses to be professionals, in the white collar sense of the word. As mentioned earlier, some of the earlier nurses were prostitutes forced to take care of the sick, and the image of nursing for the general public still has us sliding bedpans under people. Now, suddenly, nurses wish to consider themselves within the elite, but first, I think that we have to take care of our own dirty backyard. Many nurses continue to eat their young, backstab each other, and arguments like this that continue between the nursing disciplines seem never ending. We are confused as to who is the 'real nurse', and diminish the roles of the lesser ones, and that is what destroys us, in my humble opinion. Of course, I am not saying that all nurses are that way, but the bad ones really dominate the good ones that are trying, even under horrific circumstances that we face everyday from management and regulatory agencies.
  8. by   MedicalLPN
    My personal opinion is as follows: We all worked our butts off to get where we are now, no matter what title you have, it wasn't handed to you. I view all my fellow nurses and fellow CNA's as professionals, simply because we all work together as a team. Individually we all have our strengths and weaknesses but as a team we're well oiled machine that provides quality nursing care to our patients. Every role in healthcare is vital, NOBODY can do it all. I tend to think that whether or not one is professional is all in the person's attitude not the letters that are behind their name. Yes I know that Registered Nurses are also called Professional Nurses and I don't disagree with that title however I have met several RN's who could not have been more unprofessional in the way they treated their co-workers and patients. Likewise I have met several LPN's and CNA's that were extremely unprofessional as well. But luckily 99% of the people I work with ARE professionals in the way they treat each other and most importantly their patients.
  9. by   smk1
    Quote from StanleyRW
    pro-fes-sion-al
      1. Of, relating to, engaged in, or suitable for a profession: lawyers, doctors, and other professional people.
      2. Conforming to the standards of a profession: professional behavior.
    1. Engaging in a given activity as a source of livelihood or as a career: a professional writer, a professional caretaker.
    2. Performed by persons receiving pay: professional football.
    3. Having or showing great skill; expert: a professional repair job.
    n.
    1. A person following a profession, especially a learned profession.
    2. One who earns a living in a given or implied occupation: hired a professional to decorate the house.
    3. A skilled practitioner; an expert.
    It's like me telling a nurse their job is easy. Shrug. Why would you insist on demeaning someone's work? While many people may respect CNA's or techs, they don't respect us enough. Without CNA's nursing would grind to a halt. I have seen CNA's that are better with patients than a nurse or doctor. So when you insist that because we are not as 'educated' as you we are not professionals it is offensive.

    I assure you that just because your job is more technical than ours, it is not harder. Not physically, mentally or emotionally. It is different but that's it.

    I am a professional. A professional caregiver, a professional human being and soon a professional nurse.

    Remember that the biggest 'facts' of the previous generations are almost always the nonsense of the next generation. Because you were taught a thing does not make it fact.
    While I can appreciate your passion for the needed work of the CNA role, you are not in any position to assure a nurse that the CNA role is just as hard as the nurse role. You are not a nurse. On the flip side of that, every nurse knows exactly what a CNA job requires. A nurse can do the CNA's job, but the CNA cannot do the nurse's job. It is not just "different". Having said that, I do think that it is not worth the time and energy or the potential loss of a good employee to make a fuss over this. Why needlessly offend others? Nurses are professionals by many standards (though the different entry levels leave that open to debate as well), but is it necessary to slap others in the face just because you can? Use different terminology and avoid the drama. I am sure there are bigger fish to fry.
  10. by   leslymill
    I thinkl the whole problem is disrespect. The CNA was talked down to and made to feel like she was an insignificant pee-on.
    My proof.
    Why does the manager need for the OP to reveil the name of the CNA.
    She can't even remember who the team member was that she treated this way.
    Managers are always telling us to respect eachother so why can't they.
  11. by   Atheos
    Quote from SMK1
    While I can appreciate your passion for the needed work of the CNA role, you are not in any position to assure a nurse that the CNA role is just as hard as the nurse role. You are not a nurse. On the flip side of that, every nurse knows exactly what a CNA job requires. A nurse can do the CNA's job, but the CNA cannot do the nurse's job. It is not just "different". Having said that, I do think that it is not worth the time and energy or the potential loss of a good employee to make a fuss over this. Why needlessly offend others? Nurses are professionals by many standards (though the different entry levels leave that open to debate as well), but is it necessary to slap others in the face just because you can? Use different terminology and avoid the drama. I am sure there are bigger fish to fry.
    While you may be certainly correct, it is the training, not the degree, that gives the nurse that boost. And the environment. There ARE places in the world where aides/tech do just what a nurse does and a new grad with a shiny BSN is absolutely less trained than a CNA and less useful. An experienced nurse is just a CNA with more technical knowledge and responsibility.

    This stupid argument has been going on forever. BSN's assuming they were better than ADN's or Diploma nurses. CNA's think they are better than Home Health Aides. Doctor's think they are better than everyone. It's elitist crap.

    As far as saying I shouldn't get easily offended or I would be a bad nurse. LOL. My patience extends to patients and their family. Supposed mature and 'educated' adult coworkers get only the consideration they show. Just because I am in nursing school doesn't mean I'm going to be a docile sheep. Maybe that's why male aides and nurses don't have quite the same problem with respect from male doctors as many females I know do. Shrug.

    By the way, if anyone choose to be elitist to my face, I may not slap them as I am no criminal, but I would dress them down, put them in their place, shut them up and move on.

    Best DON I ever had was a Diploma nurse lol. Worst one had a MSN. *Shrug*
  12. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from KimmieKoo72
    I myself am an LPN, and I am a little bit offended that one of the posters to this thread referred to an LPN being a part of a vocation.... I'm not a nun. I'm a Lisenced Practical NURSE. Last I checked, a NURSE is a professional! I went to school too.. as did all the other LPN's out there. RN's do have more schooling and more skills, etc. But don't discount the role of the LPN. WE ARE PROFESSIONALS!

    I was an LPN for more years than I've been an RN. We were taught in my LPN program that the RN is a professional nurse, and that the LPN/LVN is a vocational, technical nurse. The Texas BON delinates RNs from LVNs in this way, as well.

    When I was an LPN, I was very proud of being one, and very proud of all the hard work it took to obtain my LPN licensure. I was a good LPN, and I knew it. RNs, CNAS, and patients frequently told me I was their "favorite".

    As an LPN, I believed that I was a professional (adjective) nurse, but not a professional (noun) nurse.

    I still feel this way today.


    I do not believe that even RNs have yet obtained true professional status. We are struggling to get there, but are not there yet.
    Last edit by Hellllllo Nurse on Nov 17, '07
  13. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    Quote from StanleyRW
    While you may be certainly correct, it is the training, not the degree, that gives the nurse that boost. And the environment. There ARE places in the world where aides/tech do just what a nurse does and a new grad with a shiny BSN is absolutely less trained than a CNA and less useful.
    I think you should move there.



    Quote from StanleyRW
    An experienced nurse is just a CNA with more technical knowledge and responsibility.
    If you ever do become a nurse, you'll learn first hand how wrong this statement is. And how.

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