"If you sit down and chart for more than 15 minutes, that's considered a break"

Nurses General Nursing

Published

We just had another wonderful meeting with management that usually points out our flaws, our low scores, introduces another document to sign during our shifts, and generally are a drag. ESPECIALLY our most recent one! Management has informed us that if we sit down and chart for more than 15 minutes, THAT'S considered one of our breaks because we've been sitting for a "prolonged period of time." Not only that, but management also said that if we take bathroom break that's "too long" (they didn't specify a time), that that too is considered one of our breaks. I laughed internally and thanked God I'm a night shifter that doesn't have to deal with management enforcing such crap. Do these people really except us to stand and walk around (apparently this is how we're supposed to chart?) for 11 hours of our shift? NO ONE DOES THAT - IN ANY JOB.

Specializes in Emergency Nursing.

I would call your union and if you don't have a union then I would speak to the director of nursing or the CEO of the hospital. Management is trying to bully you guys and someone needs to stand up to them.

!Chris :specs:

Specializes in Cardiac.

that is ridiculous...i have never heard of such rules..the place that I work @ management is really good...for 12 hr shift we get 1 half hour and 2 15min breaks...and if we want we can combine the half hour with one 15 min total of 45 minutes for lunch. No body checks on if u are sitting around or taking long breaks...as long as u chart appropriately and get ur job done they dont bother you....good luck with ur letter to the CEO

Specializes in Addictions/Mental Health, Telemetry.

I agree with all the other posters....call the labor board. After that, truly take a look at how often you round on your patients in between sitting and charting. And I don't just mean just answering call bells. As long as your patients are stable, clean, happy, adequately medicated, what's the beef? Have a seat!

Specializes in Peds Hem, Onc, Med/Surg.

oh yeah that is going to work so well.

Another great idea from the administrative people.

Specializes in ICU, Telemetry.

Get ahold of a memo (if the idiots are stupid enough to put anything on paper) and forward it to the newspaper. They don't give a rats rump about you guys, but they sure wouldn't want negative publicity.

someone has mentioned that the labor board really has nothing to do with breads that are on company time.....however the employer is bound by their own policy....if you are supposed to get a break and dont, perhaps then the labor board might be interested?.....worth a shot anyway.....oh, and buy the timers in bulk!

Specializes in ER, ICU, Education.

Makes you want to tell them that since you're sure they'll want to lead by example, you will now be timing their bathroom breaks, and if they take "too long" you will be forced to pop your head over the stall and ask "Whatcha doin' in there? Sure is taking a long time!" My goodness, that's something I expect from an impatient 3-year-old who wants mommy, not from my manager. Soon they'll start requiring production of a urine or stool sample after a bathroom break!

I bet if all the nurses went at the end of the shift and plopped all their charts on the managers desk and said "Unfortunately, I was unable to chart all my care in 14 minutes and 59 seconds, so you will need to do it" you might see some results. If you have 10 patients like you might on a med surge floor, this leaves you 1 minute and 46 seconds per patient to chart each day. Makes you want to challenge your manager to chart two head to toe assessments, an education note, med administration, pain assessment, a 12 and 24 hours chart check, and sometimes admit/discharge paperwork/med reconciliation all in under 1 minute 46 seconds, then berate them when they are unable to do so. And of course, that's assuming that your patient never leaves the floor, goes to any procedures, or has anything else worth charting in the progress notes.

Some examples of California labor law

1.

Q.

What are the basic requirements for rest periods under California law?

A.

California employees covered by the rest period provisions of the Industrial Welfare Commission Wage Orders must be provided with a net 10-minute paid rest period for every four hours worked or major fraction thereof. Insofar as is practicable, the rest period should be in the middle of the work period. If an employer fails to provide an employee a rest period, the employer shall pay the employee one hour of pay at the employee's regular rate of pay for each workday that the rest period is not provided.

2.

Q.

Must the rest periods always be in the middle of each four-hour work period?

A.

Rest breaks must be given as close to the middle of the four-hour work period as is practicable. If the nature or circumstances of the work prevent the employer from giving the break at the preferred time, the employee must still receive the required break, but may take it at another point in the work period.

3.

Q.

My employer is not allowing me to take a rest period. Is there anything I can do about this situation?

A.

Yes, there is something you can do if you are an employee covered by the rest period requirements of the Industrial Welfare Commission Wage Orders. If your employer fails to provide the required rest period, you are to be paid one hour of pay at your regular rate of compensation for each workday that the rest period is not provided. If your employer fails to pay the additional one-hour's pay, you may file a wage claim with the Division of Labor Standards Enforcement.

4.

Q.

Is it permissible if I choose to work through both of my rest periods so that I can leave my job 20 minutes early?

A.

No, working through your rest period does not entitle you to leave work early or arrive late.

5.

Q.

Can my employer require that I stay on the work premises during my rest period?

A.

Yes, your employer can require that you stay on the premises during your rest break. Since you are being compensated for the time during your rest period, your employer can require that you remain on its premises. And under most situations, the employer is required to provide suitable resting facilities that shall be available for employees during working hours in an area separate from the toilet rooms.

6.

Q.

Can I have additional rest breaks if I am a smoker?

A.

No, under California law rest period time is based on the total hours worked daily, and only one ten-minute rest period need be authorized for every four hours of work or major fraction thereof.

7.

Q.

When I need to use the toilet facilities during my work period does that count as my ten minute rest break?

A.

No, the 10-minute rest period is not designed to be exclusively for use of toilet facilities as evidenced by the fact that the Industrial Welfare Commission requires suitable resting facilities be in an area "separate from toilet rooms." The intent of the Industrial Welfare Commission regarding rest periods is clear: the rest period is not to be confused with or limited to breaks taken by employees to use toilet facilities. This conclusion is required by a reading of the provisions of IWC Orders, Section 12, Rest Periods, in conjunction with the provisions of Section 13(B), Change Rooms And Resting Facilities, which requires that "Suitable resting facilities shall be provided in an area separate from the toilet rooms and shall be available to employees during work hours."

Allowing employees to use toilet facilities during working hours does not meet the employer's obligation to provide rest periods as required by the IWC Orders. This is not to say, of course, that employers do not have the right to reasonably limit the amount of time an employee may be absent from his or her work station; and, it does not indicate that an employee who chooses to use the toilet facilities while on an authorized break may extend the break time by doing so. DLSE policy simply prohibits an employer from requiring that employees count any separate use of toilet facilities as a rest period.

8.

Q.

I am regularly scheduled to work an eight-hour shift. What can I do if my employer doesn't allow me to take a rest break?

A.

You can either file a wage claim (the Labor Commissioner's Office), or you can file a lawsuit in court against your employer to recover the the premium of one additional hour of pay at your regular rate of compensation for each workday that the rest period is not provided.

Specializes in Emergency & Trauma/Adult ICU.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs53.pdf

Good information from the federal Dept. of Labor (regardless of what state OP is in). See particularly examples 9 - 11.

Here's hoping the staff where OP works don't let this abuse go.

Unlike the 30-minute lunch break, 15-minute breaks tend to be paid breaks, so the employer, by the letter of the law, would not be requiring the employee to work unpaid. While most states require a 30-minute unpaid break and all states require that employees be paid for all time worked, only 7 states require employers to provide paid break periods. The DOL may not be of much help unless employees are being forced to work during an unpaid break period. I agree, though, that it would be very bad publicity for the hospital if word got out about it to the community.

Most states do not guarantee 15 minute breaks. Still and all, if an employee is "on break" it can be construed that the employee is not working. If the employee has been charting during an interval that might be converted into break time, that employee has been working. The idea that an employer would take time spent working and try to redefine it as break time (paid time or not) will only serve to effectively deny the employee anymore down time during a shift. It is a transparent ploy to keep people working, a "barefoot and pregnant" kind of approach to keep employee noses to the grindstone by eliminating the opportunity to do anything else.

My suggestion to take these things to Wage and Hour is because they are only extensions of employers efforts to force employees to work on their own time, the same way they try to make nurses do their charting off the clock, insist that employees take their lunches while not allowing them the time or relief to do so then denying "no lunches" payroll exceptions, and often try to avoid paying for mandatory staff meetings and inservices by instructing off duty employees not to punch in and blithely "reminding" employees already on duty to punch out.

Specializes in Acute Care Psych, DNP Student.
I'm not sure how the law works....I thought the law DOES state that you have to have a break in X number of hours.

Breaks are optional in some states, not mandated by law. In these states, breaks are at the discretion of the employer and "as the work flow permits."

In almost two years of clinicals, I have yet to see a nurse take a break. It's just not in our hospital culture here in AZ. They are lucky to get lunches, and even then, they are often on the unit and interrupted.

Specializes in Med/Surg.
Breaks are optional in some states, not mandated by law. In these states, breaks are at the discretion of the employer and "as the work flow permits."

In almost two years of clinicals, I have yet to see a nurse take a break. It's just not in our hospital culture here in AZ. They are lucky to get lunches, and even then, they are often on the unit and interrupted.

15 minute breaks may not be mandated, but I believe in some cases meal breaks are, at least. There should, at the very least, be clear definitions in the P&P, which should help.

From what I can find, Arizona does not have any laws regarding breaks being required, and IMO that is absolutely archaic.

It might not be in your hospital culture, but that is very unsafe practice. Our hospital is making a renewed push to make sure everyone gets their meal breaks. It's necessary for the staff to perform optimally. I do of course know that some days it's just not feasible to be able to take one, certainly. It should be the exception rather than the rule, however.

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