Had something interest happen this past weekend

Specialties Correctional

Published

I work at a state prison and a county detention center... this weekend I was at the detention center.

I had something happen this past weekend that was quite interesting... I had a man come up c/o lightheadedness, nausea and vomiting blood. Ok... I didn't see it but it did warrant an assessment. I pulled his chart. He was on motrin 800mg tid for a shoulder injury. No significat history except he was an alcoholic prior to being incarcerated. I spoke with the inmate and he states he has a history of ulcers. He was clearly pale, clammy and his color was a little yellow to me. I took his vitals... bp 99/50, pulse 100, temp 96 (I took it 3 times). He said that he had been lightheaded as well. I told him to stop the motrin. I asked him what he had eaten and what he had to drink and he said lots of pepperoni and pizza. I thought well, maybe it was sauce that he saw. He started to feel a little better. He said he had Tums and would take those and lay down. I told him to tell an officer if he vomited again or if anything got worse or if he developed new symptoms. Well an hour later I get a call. I told them to bring him up. He stated that he had vomited again and he said he could taste blood. He kept saying "I feel like something busted." His looks spoke for itself. You have so many manipulaters its hard to tell sometimes who is valid and who's not. My gut and assessment said send him out. It was 10:30pm. I called the doc on call and his voice mail picked up. I left a message about my assessment and said I was sending him out. I told security and they were ticked because it was 1) 10:30pm and they were changing shifts soon and 2) the doctor hadn't called back yet. I said "Look, he is clearly sick and I am not risking his health or my license." Sounded mean maybe but I just had a gut feeling. The doc called back and said go ahead and send him... he was already gone. Well I called the day after and found they admitted him. I found out today that he had emergency surgery (he was bleeding internally) and is in ICU... I don't know the diagnosis though. Security actually went to my boss and told them that I made a decision without doctor consent, but I didn't. Well, thats my job late at night with no doctor... My objective opinion was something is wrong. I called the doctor like I was suppose to. The doc didn't pick up so I left a message and he called right back. The doc of course will say yes send them out because they depend on us and we are the ones there, they aren't. Clearly security has no training to make any decisions pertaining to medcial. My boss told them that it was fine that I made the decision that I made... if not, he might have died. I mean sometimes we have to make on the spot decisions based on our knowledge.

Sorry for the book... its just I didn't like the way security acted. They feel like the inmates always lie and sometimes they do. This inmate was a trustee... no history of frequent visits and states he hasn't been sick since being in there (over a year).

When I told them I wanted to send him out... one officer looked at his watch and said "Its almost time to go home." I said "well he needs to go and can't wait." The sargeant comes over to me and says is the doctor aware... I said I called and left a message and she'll call back any minute. I didn't back down because she acted like she wanted to wait. I told her that he had to go asap and that he could be bleeding internally... the other officer said "yeah right" I said, "His objective symptoms clearly say something is wrong..."

What a mess. I am glad I sent him!

Specializes in correctional, psych, ICU, CCU, ER.

Again, good for you...the nurses are the ones with the license to loose, not the security staff..they need to learn about liability, liability, liability.............you trust your judgement and your gut.....

Specializes in Addictions, Corrections, QA/Education.

Security tries to be intimidating... I hate that. Your right. We are the one with the license. I wont risk that for anyone!!

Specializes in Education, FP, LNC, Forensics, ED, OB.

Threads merged for continuity.

WOW.

I found out the he had an ulcer that perforated! :eek: Very serious condition. I don't understand... he denied pain when I asked him. I did read however that some people do not have pain just the nausea and vomiting. He had a pretty involved surgery, repairs etc and a lot of antibiotics.

No wonder he was in ICU...

He is doing better though. They aren't sure when he will be discharged.

I will find out more when he's actually discharged back to us and I see his paperwork from the hospital.

All I can say is **whew**. It really does feel good to make a good judgement call without seeing all of the symptoms involved... and just based on the assessment.

It makes nursing so worthwhile to see that I played a part in him getting the proper care he needed in an emergent time of need (obviously when no one else agreed.) SO SO glad it was a positive outcome.

YES!! that is what makes our day, when we can see/feel "something's up" and act upon it regardless of what others say/do. I'm sure the "other side" is realizing (or i hope they do) that we are there to do just that.I'm still in orientation for my 1st "jail time"( lol!!) and i'm sure loving it compared to the war..oops...i mean work zone's i've been in (med surg/ltc):specs:. I sure do appreciate you writing in to tell about his symptoms/progress.Last time i took care of a perf. ulcer pt i felt he was going to go into DT"S, warned everyone, nurses and doc-i asked for librium for him and was told to "watch and wait", well lo and behold i come in one night and catch this guy up standing, stretching his central line across the room as well as his NGT. I go in to check him out and he tells me that he is up because "the urinal that you gave me has a hole in it", says "there it is, go look for your self", i look down at his chair and there is his incentive spirometer leaking with urine:w00t::w00t:;);) so there i go calling the md for that librium and some ativan at 2am. gee i felt sooooo bad for calling at that time of the morning:innerconf. Please keep us posted, i'm sure he will thank you when he gets back to you. Keep up the good work!!!!

Security tries to be intimidating... I hate that. Your right. We are the one with the license. I wont risk that for anyone!!

Bingo! I am with you on that. You have everything to lose and the public will put on a trial of public opinion first like they did in the case of the Florida boot camp death if something went wrong and you didn't demand further care.

Those guards turned on the nurse right away after the teenager died and the public felt the nurse should have known better then the guards. I in fact couldn't even find one nurse who would defend her either.

Sounds like some of your officers need a little more training or a refresher course before they end up in some huge lawsuit. They should know that if they are jail deputies for a county then the local sherrifs will always choose to defend and hire attornies for patrol deputies over detention ones. The brass will always give the least amount of energy and funds to the detention side.

They are fooling themselves if they think even their own agency is going to bail them out of certain liabilties like an inmate dying because they refused to transport even though you and the other nurses suggested that. They need to remember the line that they are using in some areas that have been through this "whatever the nurse says is what we're doing next"

You stay safe and continue to make the decisions that are correct for you and your patients.

Specializes in Addictions, Corrections, QA/Education.

Thank you! When the officers questioned his "needing" to go to the hospital, I told them he HAD to go. Then I said "Should I call 911?" They said "no, we will transport." I can still see that half wit officer looking at his watch saying "you want him to go now?" Ugh... yes moron. Now. He cannot be allowed to wait. LOL I didn't say that but was surely thinking it.

Assessment question here... why do you think his temp was low; at 95.5? I took it three times and it was about the same. Was it due to bleeding? Or maybe didn't have anything to do with it. My thinking cap isn't on :lol: and wasn't on then either because I didn't understand why is was low.

Specializes in Addictions, Corrections, QA/Education.

Where did that LOL come from... :)

Specializes in Utilization Management.
Thank you! When the officers questioned his "needing" to go to the hospital, I told them he HAD to go. Then I said "Should I call 911?" They said "no, we will transport." I can still see that half wit officer looking at his watch saying "you want him to go now?" Ugh... yes moron. Now. He cannot be allowed to wait. LOL I didn't say that but was surely thinking it.

Assessment question here... why do you think his temp was low; at 95.5? I took it three times and it was about the same. Was it due to bleeding? Or maybe didn't have anything to do with it. My thinking cap isn't on :lol: and wasn't on then either because I didn't understand why is was low.

Sounds like he was in shock.

http://0-medlineplus.nlm.nih.gov.catalog.llu.edu/medlineplus/ency/article/000167.htm#Symptoms

An examination indicates the presence of shock. There is usually low blood pressure, rapid pulse, and low body temperature.

Specializes in Addictions, Corrections, QA/Education.
Sounds like he was in shock.

http://0-medlineplus.nlm.nih.gov.catalog.llu.edu/medlineplus/ency/article/000167.htm#Symptoms

An examination indicates the presence of shock. There is usually low blood pressure, rapid pulse, and low body temperature.

Yes!!... that was probably it. He did have a low BP and his pulse was thready and tachy... thanks for jarring the old memory there! :)

He was pale, cool, clammy, lightheaded. He wasn't confused at all. He was sitting in medical talking completely normal. He walked back to his cell.

Specializes in Addictions, Corrections, QA/Education.

When he came up at first he said that he vomited three good times and it looked like blood. Then he said "if I threw up that much blood I wouldn't be standing here right now." (I honestly doubted that it was all blood at that time) He had pizza for dinner so we were thinking that was part of the redness in his emesis. Ugh... that was probably a lot of blood. He vomited again like that about an hour later and he said he tasted blood that time. :( Poor guy. I should have sent him out the first time he came up.

I agree with your last assessment that you should have sent him ASAP on his first visit to you. A guy that has a bp less than a hundred with a hr of 100 and low temp is showing signs of trying to compensate for shock. But I am so very happy that you stood up for what is right and got this guy the help he needed when you realized that something wasn't right. Kudos to you for going against the popular grain and giving this guy a chance at life no matter what others think.

Specializes in Addictions, Corrections, QA/Education.
I agree with your last assessment that you should have sent him ASAP on his first visit to you. A guy that has a bp less than a hundred with a hr of 100 and low temp is showing signs of trying to compensate for shock. But I am so very happy that you stood up for what is right and got this guy the help he needed when you realized that something wasn't right. Kudos to you for going against the popular grain and giving this guy a chance at life no matter what others think.

I know that 'some' inmates are real manipulators and many are not. When I took his BP I was looking in his chart for 'his' normals. This was a little guy. No significant history in his late 20's (28 I think) When I took his temp I thought that the thermometer was messed up. It was an ear thermometer. We were out of probe covers (ugh... another story) so I just alcoholed it before and after because I needed a temp on him.

He was sitting there with his cup of water talking normally. He was verbally appropriate and polite. He said that he was starting to feel a little better and that he wanted to go back to his cell to try to lay down. Shock was the LAST thing on my mind. I know now that I shouldn't have let him go back. I reiterated to him that if he starting feeling lightheaded, if he vomited again or if developed any symptoms what so ever to tell a guard to bring him up asap.

I had never seen this guy before. I didn't know what he "normally" looked like. His color looked bad though. He was pale and sort of yellowy looking. I was looking in his chart for possible hepatitis history. I found that he did have a history of alcoholism.

Even when he came back up the guards cuffed him to the bench outside of medical and left him there alone. I asked where he was and they said on "In front of central." I am like... "Can you bring him in here?" I went out there and he was leaning over with his head resting on him hands... He looked at me and said "There is something wrong... it feels like something busted. I threw up again and tasted blood this time" He asked for some water because he had ice with him and I told him "No, I am sending you out right now."

I feel a little bad now because he was more than likely experiencing shock. I have been a nurse for about 5 years and haven't experienced seeing anyone in shock. It was right in front of my face and I didn't see it... I totally didn't expect it.

The important thing is that he did get his care and is on the road to recovery. What an ordeal!

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