Had something interest happen this past weekend

Specialties Correctional

Published

I work at a state prison and a county detention center... this weekend I was at the detention center.

I had something happen this past weekend that was quite interesting... I had a man come up c/o lightheadedness, nausea and vomiting blood. Ok... I didn't see it but it did warrant an assessment. I pulled his chart. He was on motrin 800mg tid for a shoulder injury. No significat history except he was an alcoholic prior to being incarcerated. I spoke with the inmate and he states he has a history of ulcers. He was clearly pale, clammy and his color was a little yellow to me. I took his vitals... bp 99/50, pulse 100, temp 96 (I took it 3 times). He said that he had been lightheaded as well. I told him to stop the motrin. I asked him what he had eaten and what he had to drink and he said lots of pepperoni and pizza. I thought well, maybe it was sauce that he saw. He started to feel a little better. He said he had Tums and would take those and lay down. I told him to tell an officer if he vomited again or if anything got worse or if he developed new symptoms. Well an hour later I get a call. I told them to bring him up. He stated that he had vomited again and he said he could taste blood. He kept saying "I feel like something busted." His looks spoke for itself. You have so many manipulaters its hard to tell sometimes who is valid and who's not. My gut and assessment said send him out. It was 10:30pm. I called the doc on call and his voice mail picked up. I left a message about my assessment and said I was sending him out. I told security and they were ticked because it was 1) 10:30pm and they were changing shifts soon and 2) the doctor hadn't called back yet. I said "Look, he is clearly sick and I am not risking his health or my license." Sounded mean maybe but I just had a gut feeling. The doc called back and said go ahead and send him... he was already gone. Well I called the day after and found they admitted him. I found out today that he had emergency surgery (he was bleeding internally) and is in ICU... I don't know the diagnosis though. Security actually went to my boss and told them that I made a decision without doctor consent, but I didn't. Well, thats my job late at night with no doctor... My objective opinion was something is wrong. I called the doctor like I was suppose to. The doc didn't pick up so I left a message and he called right back. The doc of course will say yes send them out because they depend on us and we are the ones there, they aren't. Clearly security has no training to make any decisions pertaining to medcial. My boss told them that it was fine that I made the decision that I made... if not, he might have died. I mean sometimes we have to make on the spot decisions based on our knowledge.

Sorry for the book... its just I didn't like the way security acted. They feel like the inmates always lie and sometimes they do. This inmate was a trustee... no history of frequent visits and states he hasn't been sick since being in there (over a year).

When I told them I wanted to send him out... one officer looked at his watch and said "Its almost time to go home." I said "well he needs to go and can't wait." The sargeant comes over to me and says is the doctor aware... I said I called and left a message and she'll call back any minute. I didn't back down because she acted like she wanted to wait. I told her that he had to go asap and that he could be bleeding internally... the other officer said "yeah right" I said, "His objective symptoms clearly say something is wrong..."

What a mess. I am glad I sent him!

You go girl. Had one this past weekend. Sent out before doc called back. It's all good.

He asked for some water because he had ice with him and I told him "No, I am sending you out right now."

Craving ice can be a sign of anemia.

Working correctional, it seemed that the nurses were NEVER right, according to security. Either we were too soft, or too hard. Heard officers say "they don't take care of the inmates", and the next day "they baby the inmates".

CMS administration was morally bankrupt, refusing to back nurses, even refusing to answer pages.

It was too stressful for me. Gotta admire the @#%& of those who work it regularly.

How do you deal with the know it all officers?

Correctional nursing can sometimes feel like you are :banghead:. You are stuck in the middle between custody, inmates, nursing administration, and medical doctors and it feels like the only person who is on your side is, well, YOU. I even had another NURSE go behind my back and talk to a physician to cancel sending an inmate out who had severe abdominal pain because she had seen the inmate the night before (along with a different doctor) and they had felt he had been faking it. The inmate had gone mandown several times that day before I arrived to fulfill my four hours of mandated overtime (lucky me) to again have this inmate go mandown. My assessment of an elevated temperature, tachycardia, tachypnea, and a hard, hot, red abdomen had me second-guessing the "assessment" of perfect vital signs and normal abdomen of the previous shift's nurse. Custody fought me each step after I contacted the doctor to send the inmate out because the other nurses didn't feel there was anything wrong with the inmate. Now it was me versus other nurses and custody :uhoh3: I finally told one officer to "Shut-up" and walked-away to tend to the inmate (16 hours on the job will do that to ya). So I'm thinking this is done and over with. Until I get a call back from the doctor to cancel the transfer, that the inmate will be seen in the triage and treatment area by the same nurses who saw him the night before so that THEY could assess if there was a change in the inmate's condition. :no: The inmate refused to be transferred to the triage and treatment are where he felt he hadn't been treated fairly (which I tended to believe was probably the case given some of the nurses there) which left me in a predicament. If I sent him back to his cell, he would only continue to go mandown and the next mandown might be a critical emergency or full arrest (I suspected peritonitis, which if it leads to sepsis, has a pretty high fatality rate). I attempted to talk the inmate in to going to the TTA hoping they would see what I was seeing and send him out. Another C.O. who came on for the new shift who also saw something wasn't right with this inmate tried to help me convince the inmate as well. The inmate was not going for it. So I tried to get the inmate to sign a refusal for treatment, hoping to get him to change his mind, and also knowing full well if he didn't, that this was not the end of this and I'd be seeing the inmate again (probably to transfer out as an emergency) but when the inmate said "I'm not refusing treatment, I'm just refusing to go to the TTA" a lightbulb went off in my head. I called the doctor back and said "Doc, he's not refusing treatment, he's refusing to be seen by the nurses in the TTA again." The doctor finally had to agree to send the inmate out, bypassing the TTA. Report from the officers who went out with the inmate=emergency surgery due to a perforated bowel. In hindsight, I wish I would have just gone over the doctor's head and sent the inmate out considering the doctor allowed other nurses who were not even present to assess the inmate to second guess my assessment and nursing judgement. It took me hours to get this inmate out between the back and forth with the doctor, TTA, inmate, and custody finally putting together a team to send this inmate out. I'm lucky the inmate didn't die in front of me considering this had been brewing for at least 24 hours. Total hours worked for the day=19 hours by the time everything was said and done and I was officially relieved. Sure, I once again gained the respect of many in custody staff. But even when you gain their respect, you have still have to listen to the ******** and moanin' about doing your job. But like someone else said, one moment, you are doing too much for the inmates, then the next moment, not enough. As long as you go home at the end of the day knowing in your heart that you did the right thing by the inmate and by your license, it don't matter what anyone else thinks (including those in nursing administration who also like to nit pick what you do or don't do because you forgot to fill out this or that insignificant piece of paper for auditing purposes, despite the fact you saved an inmate's life). Correctional nursing can be thankless at times and more than thankful at others. It's not for everyone.

Specializes in corrections, legal, med/surg, ICU,CCU,.

Patient's with a GI bleed often run fairly stable vital signs then suddenly crash. The best way to determine if they are actually bleeding aside from hemocculting emesis and doing orthostatic vital signs. If they are bleeding they will have a drop of BP when standing or an increase in pulse.

WOWOWOWOWOW!!!!! that's what nursing is all about!!! I ALWAYS have to check security about their "medical" skills, they seem to know "everthing" there is to know about nursing. Even though they are inmates, if I feel that something is "not quite right" I send them out too. I am proud to say that the unit I work at hasn't had an inmate die due to the nurses' assessment.

Congratualtions! It's tough to stand up for yourself against such stern and authoratative opposition, I commend your stalwart advocacy.

Often what the officers often don't "get" is that we are there for them as much or even more than for the patients, we become their Risk Management, the system that relieves them of having to make decisions they are not trained for nor should be, with likely biased judgements. You do your job, and I will do mine and we can even do it them together!

For every inamte that successfully pulls one over on medical, there are ten who will get life, limb, and other valued functioning saved!!!

We ALL rock!:yeah:

It is your administrators job to make sure it is understood how well you performed and how much grief and pain you saved EVERYONE in this situation, on top of a very lucky man's life.

Specializes in Pediatrics, Correctional.

I think you did right! I have the same problem you have where I work also. I am known to the inmates and officers as the nice nurse! I feel I am there for a reason, and to be an advocate for my patients! I know most of the inmates will try to manipulate you, but i'm not stupid! I get mad at times with the inmates, but you have to remember they are human beings also and have feelings like everybody else! We have the same motto, When in dought send them out! I guess I have been very lucky, every inmate that I have sent out, have been very ill! The officers can fuss all they want to, but I have to live with myself and I have to know I did everything that was right by my patient! I worked to hard for my license to lose it for some officer that doesn't want to have to take an inmate to the hospital. I figure they will get over it! You did right!

Oh the what ifs here are maddening!

What if you hadn't insisted he go?

Kudos for taking a stand.

Specializes in Addictions, Corrections, QA/Education.
Correctional nursing can sometimes feel like you are :banghead:. You are stuck in the middle between custody, inmates, nursing administration, and medical doctors and it feels like the only person who is on your side is, well, YOU. I even had another NURSE go behind my back and talk to a physician to cancel sending an inmate out who had severe abdominal pain because she had seen the inmate the night before (along with a different doctor) and they had felt he had been faking it. The inmate had gone mandown several times that day before I arrived to fulfill my four hours of mandated overtime (lucky me) to again have this inmate go mandown. My assessment of an elevated temperature, tachycardia, tachypnea, and a hard, hot, red abdomen had me second-guessing the "assessment" of perfect vital signs and normal abdomen of the previous shift's nurse. Custody fought me each step after I contacted the doctor to send the inmate out because the other nurses didn't feel there was anything wrong with the inmate. Now it was me versus other nurses and custody :uhoh3: I finally told one officer to "Shut-up" and walked-away to tend to the inmate (16 hours on the job will do that to ya). So I'm thinking this is done and over with. Until I get a call back from the doctor to cancel the transfer, that the inmate will be seen in the triage and treatment area by the same nurses who saw him the night before so that THEY could assess if there was a change in the inmate's condition. :no: The inmate refused to be transferred to the triage and treatment are where he felt he hadn't been treated fairly (which I tended to believe was probably the case given some of the nurses there) which left me in a predicament. If I sent him back to his cell, he would only continue to go mandown and the next mandown might be a critical emergency or full arrest (I suspected peritonitis, which if it leads to sepsis, has a pretty high fatality rate). I attempted to talk the inmate in to going to the TTA hoping they would see what I was seeing and send him out. Another C.O. who came on for the new shift who also saw something wasn't right with this inmate tried to help me convince the inmate as well. The inmate was not going for it. So I tried to get the inmate to sign a refusal for treatment, hoping to get him to change his mind, and also knowing full well if he didn't, that this was not the end of this and I'd be seeing the inmate again (probably to transfer out as an emergency) but when the inmate said "I'm not refusing treatment, I'm just refusing to go to the TTA" a lightbulb went off in my head. I called the doctor back and said "Doc, he's not refusing treatment, he's refusing to be seen by the nurses in the TTA again." The doctor finally had to agree to send the inmate out, bypassing the TTA. Report from the officers who went out with the inmate=emergency surgery due to a perforated bowel. In hindsight, I wish I would have just gone over the doctor's head and sent the inmate out considering the doctor allowed other nurses who were not even present to assess the inmate to second guess my assessment and nursing judgement. It took me hours to get this inmate out between the back and forth with the doctor, TTA, inmate, and custody finally putting together a team to send this inmate out. I'm lucky the inmate didn't die in front of me considering this had been brewing for at least 24 hours. Total hours worked for the day=19 hours by the time everything was said and done and I was officially relieved. Sure, I once again gained the respect of many in custody staff. But even when you gain their respect, you have still have to listen to the ******** and moanin' about doing your job. But like someone else said, one moment, you are doing too much for the inmates, then the next moment, not enough. As long as you go home at the end of the day knowing in your heart that you did the right thing by the inmate and by your license, it don't matter what anyone else thinks (including those in nursing administration who also like to nit pick what you do or don't do because you forgot to fill out this or that insignificant piece of paper for auditing purposes, despite the fact you saved an inmate's life). Correctional nursing can be thankless at times and more than thankful at others. It's not for everyone.

Wow... good for you for sticking to your guns. It always feels good when you save someone isn't it!

The way I see it is these are people like you and me. They deserve medical treatment. I really dislike it when other nurses or officers say "Oh... he is faking or he's full of sh*t." We go to school and earn our degree, get our license so I wish they would let us use it. :stone It our license on the line... not theirs. :argue:

I know that I receive more respect now and usually if I say send them out... they get them out. It really irritates me when custody tries to get in the way of medical treatment.

:yeah: you should be proud of yourself!! I think we are all special for caring and wanting to work in corrections! (not that all nurses aren't special ;) )

Specializes in Addictions, Corrections, QA/Education.
I think you did right! I have the same problem you have where I work also. I am known to the inmates and officers as the nice nurse! I feel I am there for a reason, and to be an advocate for my patients! I know most of the inmates will try to manipulate you, but i'm not stupid! I get mad at times with the inmates, but you have to remember they are human beings also and have feelings like everybody else! We have the same motto, When in dought send them out! I guess I have been very lucky, every inmate that I have sent out, have been very ill! The officers can fuss all they want to, but I have to live with myself and I have to know I did everything that was right by my patient! I worked to hard for my license to lose it for some officer that doesn't want to have to take an inmate to the hospital. I figure they will get over it! You did right!

I am known as the nice nurse too. I do genuinely care. What some fail to realize is that there is liability here too. They have to have medical tx.

:clown:

Specializes in Addictions, Corrections, QA/Education.
Craving ice can be a sign of anemia.

Working correctional, it seemed that the nurses were NEVER right, according to security. Either we were too soft, or too hard. Heard officers say "they don't take care of the inmates", and the next day "they baby the inmates".

CMS administration was morally bankrupt, refusing to back nurses, even refusing to answer pages.

It was too stressful for me. Gotta admire the @#%& of those who work it regularly.

How do you deal with the know it all officers?

How do I deal with know it all officers? Throw some knowledge their way... get technical! That usually shuts them up. I have said "this is MY license... oh... do you have one too?" lol

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