Your Thoughts Requested

Daqueengene · Apr 28, 2004

As A OR Rn I must say that having more people in a room during surgery just increases the risk of problems. Infection rates increase with increased personel in an active OR. Many people think they are ready and able to view procedures on loved ones only to find out too late they are not and end up on the floor passed out then to the ER for treatment or in need of assistance to get out of the OR and there is no one who can take care of them. I have worked in places where a family member is allowed to be in the room for a cesarean section and this is a routine practice, but they are allowed only after anesthesia has been safely induced ie. spinal or epidural, the patient has been prepped and draped, they leave with the infant and are not in the room for the remainder of the procedure. I suggest you find a Physician who you can trust and who can help your husband work through his distrust of medical personel and hospitals. I would make sure that you are able to discuss your concerns with your anesthesia provider and I would canvass friends co-workers who ever to give you recommendations for both and don't be afraid to request. If you have friends who are OR nurses see if you can request them for your care then maybe your husband would be less anxious for you to be away from him during your surgery. Surgery is scary for us all even those of us who work in it every day. Rest assured that there are many dedicated and professional people who are there to make sure that you get the very best care but you have to be an active informed and knowledgable consumer it is like buying anything you must look around test drive and the first place you go may not be the right place for you to have your surgery. Good luck.

from an OR nurse dedicated to each Patient I come in contact with each day.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Apr 28, 2004

Do people not have a heart out there...... What is the difference if someone passes away on a med/surg unit than in the OR don't you want family to be there instead of strangers, but i guess that doesn't matter because the pt won't be any of the wiser and that is my point exactly. Isn't this a "consumer oriented " industry now do what the families want to make the surveys and scores good.

And it is surgery not WalMart for goodness sakes. No one has any business being in the OR except those the have to be there. It isn't heartless, it is common sense. And quite frankly, we need to stop some of this consumer oriented crap for just this reason. When surveys and scores take precedence, something is seriously amiss.

There are many surgeons that do not care for having students, much less a spouse. And I would like Anesthesia and the Surgeons to have the utmost concentration when operating. And generally, they WILL be distracted by the spouse in there. They do not need that distraction.

And before someone starts the tired "if they were good, they would not be distracted/worried". They are HUMAN. You wouldn't look over the shoulder of your accountant, stockbroker, every second while they were doing their job. You wouldn't want someone staring at you the entire time while you take a test or a family member of a patient filming your every moment at work for 12 hours.

I have unwrapped incisions in front of big strong family members that "could handle" anything, just to watch them faint in the floor. Or freak out, if the patient so much as makes a sound.

rdhdnrs · Apr 28, 2004

Thank you Carol for the common sense comment about customer service being taken too far!! Right, it's not WalMart; it's lives and health we're talking about. Those who don't have the expertise in the area of surgery should not be dictating surgical procedure and protocol. I'm an OB nurse and I am all for someone being there during a c-section under regional anesthesia. I don't think for a minute that any family member is prepared to see his loved one under general anesthesia.

I think the most caring environment by far for a spouse whose mate is having surgery is in the waiting room with family and friends.

Lisa

CCU NRS · Apr 28, 2004

I'm sorry you can't understand why things are as they are. Maybe you could spend the day in the OR with another nurse and then maybe you'll understand why the rules are why they are. Also, I really think you need to understand that you aren't going to die on the OR table so there is no reason for him to be there. You are going to do just fine if they decide they need to operate. orrnlori,
I do understand the way things are in the OR that is why I am making such a bold statement, there is room for family if they are calm cool and collected, yes sure there is a time and place for everything and I think this is the time and place, Are you GOD, no i dare say not! I have known of some cases of general surgeries like lap chole's get extremely hairy with unknown cardiac arrythmias or just even that that occurs within the first minutes of anesthesia as you i am sure can well attest. NO offense but why such a chip on your shoulder, husbands are allowed in with the delivery of a csection, do you think that is not major surgery? NOT. This is just like anywhere else in the hospital setting, if you are disorderly, can not take the stress or get ill at the site of blood or needles you shouldnt be there, but what is the harm setting at the head of the bed or in the corner somewhere just to be close by. I am sure if asked or with papers from a lawyer they would allow you in or it is something to say for the hospital and its staff. My husband is willing to sign any paper imagineable. I think it is true love and devotion to be at the side of your spouse praying in their time of need

You did ask for advice and the general concensus is that it is a a bad idea. I won't pretend to know how scared you or your husband are but you presumably work in the medical field, I am sure you have seen and heard things in your context as a nurse that family members would not think were humerous but part of the daily stress relief in the medical field is humor to relieve stress what if you husband is in th OR and hears some remark he thinks is inappropriate, I don't know what kind of perso he is but he could conceivably become angry and what if his anger were great enough that attacked someone in the middle of your surgery and think of the possibilities or things that could go wrong ni that instance. Doctors are for good reason afraid of lawsuites and they are very aware that one wrong move can cause even an understanding person to see dollars signs. concentration on the taks at hand and a good working environment could not be possible with a stranger and in fact the spouse in th OR! You have become angry it seems and you are not getting the respnses you hoped for, I would advise you and your spouse to seek counsel on this issue and as mentioned shop araound ask doctors question check the lists in you area of dangerous docs almost always some local news channel offers someo type of list. If you are a nurse go to the recovery or the CCU/ICU and ask discreetly about which docs are the best we all know and will willingly tell anyone that asks.

CCU NRS · Apr 28, 2004

thanks for the replies and i know everyone has a job to do etc and don't want the added trouble of someone else in the room but he is not the least bit squeamish, watched all my births, guts deer etc. Do people not have a heart out there...... What is the difference if someone passes away on a med/surg unit than in the OR don't you want family to be there instead of strangers, but i guess that doesn't matter because the pt won't be any of the wiser and that is my point exactly. Isn't this a "consumer oriented " industry now do what the families want to make the surveys and scores good. Why would anyone have a problem with it, if something should happen not saying it will to have someone sitting their quietly just observing. Do pts have consent forms signed for students to be in the room during a surgery, i think not, what is the difference. Just my opinions

In this post you seem to be equating your self to a deer being gutted, you mention that DH guts Deer, do you think it would be the same for him to see you being gutted? Is he a really controlling person and insisting that you have him in the room? If he loves you so dearly then seeing you opened up and bleeding can not be a pleasant experience. As for do we not have heart I think everyone here is using their heart to attempt to tell you that sparing your DH this experience is the humane, heartfelt move!!!

If you actually begin to die from a Thyroidectomy which I would say chances are about as slim as they get, all things considered they would bring your DH to the Recovery room where you would likely be moved to or CCU.

As for the medical field being a consmer industry that is part of what is wrong with it today everyone wants to be catered too just as if they are buying a house or a car, think about those people that sell cars and houses many times they only show you the good side of the deal while hiding much of the less glamorous things such as interest and upkeep, here shiny new car zoom zoom zoom oh by the way here is you giant payment and your limited factory warranty.

weezieRN · Apr 28, 2004

ccu rn

you have hit the nail on the head when talking about what would happen should anyone pass away in the OR everything is after the fact...... not during minutes of the incidence maybe not even hours after the fact. Do you honestly feel or think it would be better to have a stranger or the dr come out and say "Sorry but your wife suffered an unfortunate complication during surgery and has passed away, sorry" I have been reading alot about trauma pts in the er and more feelings of closure for families if they were there to witness attempts to save their loved one. I am not being defensive about what i am saying but i am just as passionate about what i think and feel as do you posters. I am familiar with the OR certainly not for everybody as is anywhere else, and no i am not comparing myself to a deer but blood and gore does not bother my husband he would even set at the head of the bed behind the draping and if necessary outside looking in the window just observing. He is willing to sign release to the hospital against any possible litigation or responsiblity the hospital or surgeon may have etc on his behalf. Why couldn't depending on how different OR are set up, why couldnt he stand in the observation rooms, or the scrub room since they usually have windows etc. Wouldn't anyone want to be with their family in times of need?

TweetiePieRN · Apr 28, 2004

ccu rn
you have hit the nail on the head when talking about what would happen should anyone pass away in the OR everything is after the fact...... not during minutes of the incidence maybe not even hours after the fact. Do you honestly feel or think it would be better to have a stranger or the dr come out and say "Sorry but your wife suffered an unfortunate complication during surgery and has passed away, sorry" I have been reading alot about trauma pts in the er and more feelings of closure for families if they were there to witness attempts to save their loved one. I am not being defensive about what i am saying but i am just as passionate about what i think and feel as do you posters. I am familiar with the OR certainly not for everybody as is anywhere else, and no i am not comparing myself to a deer but blood and gore does not bother my husband he would even set at the head of the bed behind the draping and if necessary outside looking in the window just observing. He is willing to sign release to the hospital against any possible litigation or responsiblity the hospital or surgeon may have etc on his behalf. Why couldn't depending on how different OR are set up, why couldnt he stand in the observation rooms, or the scrub room since they usually have windows etc. Wouldn't anyone want to be with their family in times of need?

Most people would like to be with their family in their time of need, However, the ORs in the hospital I work in do not have an observation room for family. Family can sit in the waiting/recovery room.

Weezie, most everyone on this board has mentioned that the reason for hubby to not be allowed in is due to sterile fields and infection control. Does this make logical sense to you? :) Hospitals are not willing to chance a bad outcome just so a family member can observe a surgery. Hospitals have to report occurences such as infection rates. Having your hubby or anyone else who is not "scrubbed up" is inviting a great chance of infection. You are an RN. I am sure you understand the big picture in relation to infection

control. :)

Remember in nursing school Maszlow's Heirarchy of needs. Safety comes before psychological issues...safety being the infection control and psychological being having hubby by yourside for comforting.

weezieRN · Apr 28, 2004

yes i certainly understand the whole bit about the sterile field and infection control but you cant tell me that a lot of infections don't stem from the OR. With the rise of infections in hospital which a good portion being nonsocomial, so what if any likliehood would there be that much more of and infection rate just my hubby being there, i have lived with him for 13 yrs i cetainly know he is not harbering any organisms or infections

TweetiePieRN · Apr 28, 2004

yes i certainly understand the whole bit about the sterile field and infection control but you cant tell me that a lot of infections don't stem from the OR. With the rise of infections in hospital which a good portion being nonsocomial, so what if any likliehood would there be that much more of and infection rate just my hubby being there, i have lived with him for 13 yrs i cetainly know he is not harbering any organisms or infections

You asked for our thoughts and you have them here. I don't want to sound rude, but this conversation has grown tiresome and I'm sure many of the previous posters would agree that it's obvious that you are totally missing the point. Good luck! :rolleyes:

chris_at_lucas_RN, RN · Apr 28, 2004

Maybe one more voice stating the obvious:

Some things are clear here.

WeezieRN is not an RN. An RN would not have posed this issue, unless it was because a patient wanted it. Even so.....

Probably her husband isn't as concerned about being with her as she is concerned about his being with her.

She's really looking for reassurance that what she wants is reasonable and right, so no matter how much we say about infection control and her own safety during surgery, not to mention her husband's safety and the ability for the OR staff to do their thing, she's not going to hear anything except what she wants to hear. The rest of it is going to be met with annoyance and argument.

But this is not reasonable, nor is it right. For one, I would not be caught dead (?@!) in a hospital that would even permit an unnecessary onlooker (students being necessary due to training needs). For two, I think it's the surest way to quickly reach financial security: sue the hospital for postop complications r/t intraop exposure to pathogens, because "they shouldn't have let us do this."

JMHO.

LynneCRNA · Apr 28, 2004

I'd just like to add that having a family member in the OR's and the surrounding area violates the confidentiality of the other patients having surgery. Walking down the halls offers glimpses into the OR's in many facilities or hearing the circulating nurse answer a page for the surgeon about Mr. X's condition. Remember HIPPA. Take control of your situation by following the suggestions of the other posters. Hand pick your OR crew, be honest and upfront about your fears, and ask for plenty of pre-op versed.

CCU NRS · Apr 28, 2004

Maybe one more voice stating the obvious:
Some things are clear here.
WeezieRN is not an RN. An RN would not have posed this issue, unless it was because a patient wanted it. Even so.....
Probably her husband isn't as concerned about being with her as she is concerned about his being with her.
She's really looking for reassurance that what she wants is reasonable and right, so no matter how much we say about infection control and her own safety during surgery, not to mention her husband's safety and the ability for the OR staff to do their thing, she's not going to hear anything except what she wants to hear. The rest of it is going to be met with annoyance and argument.
But this is not reasonable, nor is it right. For one, I would not be caught dead (?@!) in a hospital that would even permit an unnecessary onlooker (students being necessary due to training needs). For two, I think it's the surest way to quickly reach financial security: sue the hospital for postop complications r/t intraop exposure to pathogens, because "they shouldn't have let us do this."
JMHO.

Yes you may have noticed my alluding to "if you are a nurse" and "presumably you work in the medical field" because I get this same feeling that a good RN would not be having as much difficulty with any or all of the reasons listed to NOT have her DH in the OR!

I think you are on the money here Chris and you have Identified the problem!

A look at her bio shows that she is a CNA, RN student grad may 2004, so she may or may not be but I think if she is a student she still has a lot to learn.