Yep. Nurses do "eat their young"

[Dianna11]

Having started posting here after I graduated, I've seen it first hand. Its not just a "say". Its the truth.

Maybe it's a blessing in disguise, to know what awaits us on the floor. But neverthelsss, extremely unprofessional of some, who think GNs or new floor nurses deserve "no respect" or that "the respect should be earned".

On edit: do patients need to "earn your respect" as well???

SMH!

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

I don't agree with this mindset. I expect to see patients in distress due to their situation of being hospitalized, but that does not give them the right to be disrespectful. I tell patients when they are disrespectful that it is a two way street. There's no way I'm going to bend over backwards for a patient who is talking to me like a dog. It may not coincide with the ivory tower of nursing's ideology but my give-a-damn and care factor drops considerably when a patient is A&O but being a jerk. There is no excuse for it. I will still care for them, intervene when medically necessary, treat their pain, etc but there is a stark contrast between my demeanor with a rude patient and with an appreciative one.

I have never understood why some patients believe that being nasty to us is going to make us want to go the extra mile for them, break the rules and give them something extra that we shouldn't or go above and beyond in any way. Yet clearly, so many of them DO believe that.

[Lunah, MSN, RN]

I want to feel respected and guided as a new GN, not told I know nothing, and shouldn't participate in certain topics , even though I've spent months hands on in clinicals and practicum

But on the flip side, you also have to acknowledge that there are those who know more than you do, and to repeat the same opinion as fact in the face of evidence-based information that people are sharing with you doesn't exactly foster that sharing, open communication that is such a wonderful thing here when people let it happen. Yes, you have spent months in hands-on — but many of us have years of that. Years and years and then some more years, and advanced training. That does not diminish what you've accomplished, it just is what it is — there will always be someone who has seen/done more. Before you know it, you'll be the experienced one trying to educate newer nurses who may see things in black and white, and you'll be able to tell them there are many shades in between.

I have been in healthcare in one form or another for 15 years, and I acknowledge that I don't know everything — not even close! I have experience with prehospital EMS and ED/trauma nursing, and plenty of that, but I will always defer to those who know more than I do about areas where I am inexperienced — ICU, OB, OR, NICU, PICU, med-surg, etc. As a GN, you have seen a wide variety of things in clinicals, but that is just dipping your toes in the pool. If you acknowledge that there is always room to learn and open yourself to it, I imagine you'll get a lot more out of interactions here. Best of luck with the NCLEX and in your new job! :)

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

As a new graduate, I was orienting in a trauma/neuro ICU. My preceptor and I took a stable patient to MRI. We were there about an hour. All I had to do was watch the patient through the window and pay attention to the monitor, which I did.Over the course of the hour I asked many question of the the MRI technician. Field strength, liquid helium cooling system, emergency shut down procedures and trying to learn a little something about interpreting MRI results. I had a science degree before nursing, so was interested. Scan completed without issue. Took patient back to unit and was sent to lunch. When I got back, I was called into my managers office and scolded for asking questions of the MRI tech. My preceptor complained it was not my job to know such things. I stood there silent for a moment and then just said "you must be kidding? Not my job to ask questions?" I turned around and walked out of the office. My questions where WAY over my preceptors head and she felt intimidated and proceeded to have me for her lunch, so to speak. Soon after, we came to an understanding and got along fine. Nurses eating their young is a real thing.

And I'm sure your turning around and walking out of the manager's office contributed much to your display of respect for the preceptor and the manager, and to their respect of you. (Sarcasm)

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

I was at a party recently and every nurse there had a tale to tell about other nurses being mean to them. However, I don't think being mean to each other is found only in nursing. I worked at an international company for two decades and it was a mostly female department, hundreds of employees and there were several that were horrible people. It's an universal problem.

It is possibly more evident in nursing because we rely on each other so much for help, as in changing patients, lifting patients, asking for guidance on how to take care of certain symptoms and so on.

I was once at a seminar where the speaker said his policy is to trust and respect everyone, until they do something to lose that respect. I have tried to incorporate that idea into my personal/professional life for years now, but find it hard to do at times because I was raised to trust no one.

I believe I have never bullied anyone and am a very helpful person, but who knows for sure. All I can say is that I have been bullied a couple of times and left jobs because of it. However, after I learned to use the coping skills and suggestions on AN I am now never in that position.

There are more than enough suggestions on how to deal with all these issues on this forum and having finally put them into practice I can say they do work, even for very timid people like me. Your world won't change until you make it change. As far as respect, I pretty much have always felt respected by the people that matter.

I do know some people who say they are never respected and the truth is they are respected, but they don't respect or like themselves and this is what they are really feeling. I feel so sorry for them because they actually are great nurses and good people.

Sometimes we have to heal ourselves before our world changes. It's something I have to work on very often.

A very good point. Because if you don't like/respect yourself, how can you see it when others do respect you?

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

Insecure people in every field are a real thing. Managers who get sucked in by tattling are a real thing. None of this is nursing-specific. NETY is a generalization, just like any other form of bigotry.

I wish I could "Like" this a few hundred times!

[Harveyslake]

Actually,....it served me well by gaining their respect. This particular unit "hazed" people and only bestowed respect when they realized you could stand up for yourself. Things like, so what you coded that patient all night,...why didn't you get the baths done??? Sheesh!

[softrbreeze]

Not sure whether I should engage or not, but I do ageee that we should stop saying "respect is earned." I have seen it as a recurring theme, especially in critical care settings.

No, admiration is earned. Respect to fellow coworkers should be an expectation for professional behavior.

AMEN!!!

[Soliloquy, MSN, APRN, NP]

But on the flip side, you also have to acknowledge that there are those who know more than you do, and to repeat the same opinion as fact in the face of evidence-based information that people are sharing with you doesn't exactly foster that sharing, open communication that is such a wonderful thing here when people let it happen. Yes, you have spent months in hands-on — but many of us have years of that. Years and years and then some more years, and advanced training. That does not diminish what you've accomplished, it just is what it is — there will always be someone who has seen/done more. Before you know it, you'll be the experienced one trying to educate newer nurses who may see things in black and white, and you'll be able to tell them there are many shades in between.

I have been in healthcare in one form or another for 15 years, and I acknowledge that I don't know everything — not even close! I have experience with prehospital EMS and ED/trauma nursing, and plenty of that, but I will always defer to those who know more than I do about areas where I am inexperienced — ICU, OB, OR, NICU, PICU, med-surg, etc. As a GN, you have seen a wide variety of things in clinicals, but that is just dipping your toes in the pool. If you acknowledge that there is always room to learn and open yourself to it, I imagine you'll get a lot more out of interactions here. Best of luck with the NCLEX and in your new job! :)

But you have to agree though, no one wants to be told that they're incompetent and belittled for sharing their experience when they finished school too. New nurses want to be taught the ropes, just like older nurses were taught the ropes. It doesn't feel good to be constantly put down.

[macawake, MSN]

Over the course of the hour I asked many question of the the MRI technician. Field strength, liquid helium cooling system, emergency shut down procedures and trying to learn a little something about interpreting MRI results. I had a science degree before nursing, so was interested. Scan completed without issue. Took patient back to unit and was sent to lunch. When I got back, I was called into my managers office and scolded for asking questions of the MRI tech. My preceptor complained it was not my job to know such things.

(my bold)

I can really relate to this. This has happened to me on more than one occasion. Not the MRI scenario specifically of course, but rather situations where I've shown an avid interest in learning more and increasing my knowledge/understanding about various different areas/topics related to my nursing duties, but which aren't expressly included in my job reponsibilities.

I've been told several times by preceptors when I was a nursing student and by coworkers as a nurse, "you don't need to know that in order to do your job". Well, perhaps I don't. But I want to know it or understand it. Gaining new knowledge is what stimulates me, it's what makes me experience job satisfaction. I love learning new things and I love figuring out the solutions to puzzles/problems. It's funny how that rubs a certain type of personality the wrong way. It seems like they think that you're too big for your britches and are trying to show off. Meh.. I'll keep on doing what makes me happy and as long as it doesn't negatively affect my job performance I fail to see why it should be anybody else's business.

I don't really like the expression "nurses eat their young". I think that it's both a generalization and vague at the same time. But I do have some personal thoughts on how I perceive cooperative interaction among colleagues to be in nursing. This isn't based on research, it's simply my own experience. I used to be in law enforcement and I probably worked with a couple of hundred police officers during that time. I've worked with about the same amount of nurses in the last decade.

Something that struck me early on in nursing school and that impression has stayed with me over the years, is that the atmosphere is different in nursing from policing. I actually think that the climate is harsher in nursing. There's the feeling that you have to earn your stripes and prove your worth. I often feel that coworkers can be stingy with advice. If they worked hard to gain knowledge, I've often seen a lack of willingness to share the hard-won insights. New guy or gal has to figure it out for themselves. Now, when it's motivated by a desire to encourage the new nurse to learn how to fact-find and problem solve efficiently and to facilitate the process of turning book knowledge into sound nursing judgment, I'm the first one to applaud it. It just seems that often it's out of sheer pettiness, forcing each new generation to re-invent the wheel for no good reason. From what I've experienced, there's a bit of "sink or swim" mentality.

In law enforcement hard-won experiences were much more liberally shared with the new guy or gal. The atmosphere was in my opinion more collegial. There was definitely more ribbing and needling, but it was mostly good-natured and with a strong sense of camaraderie. You shared your insights with the new colleague because you knew that his/her, your own and the general public's safety might well depend on him or her making a good decision in a stressful situation. Training a new officer you worked very hard to make sure that the new colleague became competent as fast as possible and every useful piece of information one could think of was shared.

Another significant difference that I've noticed is that the cops I worked with would aim their frustration and anger about staffing levels, problems with equipment or other problems in the workplace towards the leaders/management. They'd hold the people in charge of the organization accountable. In nursing I feel that the frustration that comes from sub-optimal work environments/conditions is oftentimes taken out on coworkers and the higher-ups get off scot-free and simply continue to mismanage their staff. As I started off saying, these are just my impressions, for whatever they're worth.

I strongly agree with the posters who've said that respect isn't something one has to earn. It's something that we should grant all our fellow human beings. I probably won't be "wowed" by someone's amazing skills on their first day of their new job in a new profession, as wow-worthy skills generally take some time to develop, but they should have and will get my respect for them as individuals from day one. No initiation ritual required.

[Lunah, MSN, RN]

But you have to agree though, no one wants to be told that they're incompetent and belittled for sharing their experience when they finished school too. New nurses want to be taught the ropes, just like older nurses were taught the ropes. It doesn't feel good to be constantly put down.

I didn't disagree — which is why I started off with "on the flip side," because there are always two sides to everything, at a minimum. :)

[TriciaJ, RN]

Actually,....it served me well by gaining their respect. This particular unit "hazed" people and only bestowed respect when they realized you could stand up for yourself. Things like, so what you coded that patient all night,...why didn't you get the baths done??? Sheesh!

That's kind of funny, although most of us wouldn't approve of hazing. Workplaces are tough enough already; the hazing is built in.

I've said this before: there seems to be a big disconnect between nursing school and nursing. Nursing schools seem focused on providing a "positive experience" for their students. Hospitals are focused on keeping a whole bunch of sick people alive and delighting them in the process. A big jarring transition for the new nurse.

Some don't realize that their school didn't adequately prepare them and their employer couldn't care less about their "positive experience". Easiest to blame the mean coworkers for their lack of respect.

[Meeshie]

I want to feel respected and guided as a new GN, not told I know nothing, and shouldn't participate in certain topics , even though I've spent months hands on in clinicals and practicum

The thing is.... the nurses on this board are under no obligation to guide you. None. You're not paying them. They haven't signed an agreement with you. Your assumption that people will do so comes off as entitled, which likely is not going to help your case if that is why you're here.