17 y/o girl who received wrong organs gets a second chance

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 22, 2003

Originally posted by Sally_ICURN
The only way they move up on the list is how they are categorized based on the imminent need or lack there of, not because they have money. Or did you bring in the money part because they were able to afford to get here?

Your right, I didn't mean it that way. What I meant was, should foreign born be allowed on the list the same as American born, giving the same priority, etc. By foreign born, I mean, noncitazen.

(I was basically meaning that if it wasn't at American taxpayer expense, not that the money moves them up the list.)

Thanks for the links. That answered a few questions.

Q. · Feb 22, 2003

If Jesica is here in the US legally, then great. If she is not, yes, then I have a problem with it. Just because I have a problem with the concept of funding an illegal's health care doesn't mean I think she is less of a person or deserves to die. Nor does it mean I am an evil person.

There has been waaayyy too many conflicting versions of this story to begin with. I was merely reacting to someone posting that she was here illegally and was funded via tax dollars. If that were true, yes I would be upset. I have every right to be upset with a system that supports that. But again, that doesn't mean that I hate the girl, think she should die or whatever.

I would hope that most people can see the difference - but apparently not.

kaycee · Feb 22, 2003

Originally posted by Susy K
There has been waaayyy too many conflicting versions of this story to begin with.

So true, hard to really have an opinion now. I am just sorry that this happened to this poor young girl.

LilgirlRN, ADN, RN · Feb 22, 2003

She's dying. I think that all the posts concerning illegal aliens perhaps could be handled better on another thread?

Love-A-Nurse · Feb 22, 2003

what a sad thing for her to endure.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Feb 22, 2003

Originally posted by LilgirlRN
She's dying. I think that all the posts concerning illegal aliens perhaps could be handled better on another thread?

Why? Is this a holy thread or something? What difference does it make if we discuss issues here or another thread? Is it disrespectful to the dying girl?

Furball · Feb 22, 2003

Originally posted by alem-tsahai
THANK YOU Happywendee and Emily_Mom! I agree 100%

How did this thread turn into an illegal immigrant bash-fest anyway?

Alem

Probably because many of us known of or have personally known American folks driven in to the poor house because of catastrauphic illness...didn't receive "special" treatment. I feel very badly for the young lady too but I can't help but feel some anger at the system.

Our healthcare boat is a sinking Titanic it's illogical to accept more passengers eh?

It's a much more complicated issue than folks being "rascist" or insensitive. Personlly, the Mexicans (legal) I've known are hardworking and very family oriented. Good old fashioned American values. But please come legally. Sick children DO come here from other countries via invitation from charitable organisations. (i hear now that Jeesica's bill was paid through a foundation...not tax dollers? Well, that makes me feel better!) There are other avenues than the illegal.

sjoe · Feb 22, 2003

kristy writes: "I don't think anyone deserves to die,"

Wake up. EVERYONE on this planet gets to die.

deby writes: "I am betting that since the error was made due to negligence at Duke that the 2nd operation will be funded (if not fully at least partly) by them."

And just where do you think these Duke funds would come from? [hint: The answer is "mostly taxes."]

wendy writes: "I dont think the blame game should come into this, yes it was a horrible horrific terrible MISTAKE .... but hauling the MD off to prison is ridiculous, he was operating under the belief that the organs DID infact match..."

Exactly.

Furball · Feb 22, 2003

I was thinking about Pappy this morning....an American VETERAN who is relegated to the VA rather than having a chance at the cutting edge of cancer care in Houston. Go to the thread entitled, I think, "checking in...how is everyone doing."

If anyone deserves "special treatment" it should be our vets.

here's the link to the thread

https://allnurses.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=31524

bestblondRN · Feb 22, 2003

My cousin sat on the organ transplant list for over 5 years awaiting a liver--she had primary biliary cirrhosis--a genetic disease. She was 100% compliant with her medical regime, but it basically took complete hepatic failure and 2 massive upper GI bleeds that almost killed her to bump her to a Status 1 (in immediate need of an organ). Thankfully, and just in the nick of time, she received a liver. She is now 7 years post-transplant and is doing wonderfully. She has a normal life expectancy and an excellent quality of life--due in part to a good organ, but in greater part to her determination to remain 100% compliant. She and her husband and children are so grateful for her second chance at life, and they never take her good health for granted.

That said, I believe that many families will do anything to try to preserve life for a family member, especially a child. I believe that Jesica and her family have a right to be here for medical care as long as it is done legally. They aren't sponging off "the system", since they are here under the sponsorship of a charitable organization, and as long as that continues to be the case, I don't think we are in a position to criticize how she got here.

What I take great issue with, however, are Mack Mahoney's statements to the media, which obviously reflect on his emotional state, that are going to skew the public's perception of medical care in a very negative way:

"Frush said there was no sure way to tell when the brain damage occurred. But Mahoney said doctors told the family it was due to the time Jesica was connected to life support.

"Life support ruins kidneys, it ruins brains, it ruins all the organs of the body," he said."

AND

"Mahoney, a building contractor who started a charity in Jesica's name, complained that image-conscious doctors hesitated to take the blame for the bungled operation and lost precious time in the hunt for new organs.

"If she dies, they murdered her," he said."

Talk about inaccurate and powerful words! It seems to me that Duke and the physicians involved are taking ownership of this error, and are doing what they can to correct it. Unfortunately, it's too much too late. It's a shame that this happened to Jesica and her family, but I don't believe in the public roasting of the doctors who tried to help her and who assumed that things were being done per protocol. If nothing else, I am quite certain that protocol will be scrutinized and revamped, if necessary, and will never be breached again!

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Feb 22, 2003

As a matter of interest, many foreign born individuals come to the US for transplants.

Several Asian countries do not accept the concept of "Brain Death" (Correct me if I am wrong, I believe Japan is/was one). If you cannot certify that someone has died until their heart stops, it makes it almost impossible to arrange a heart, lung or heart and lung transplant d/t the short time that those organs are viable outside a physiologically "living" body - As such , many Japanese were coming here or countries w/more liberal parameters for some transplants. My question is why they do not pressure their own government into permitting the use of "Brain Death " as death so that the transplants can be done in their own country. It seems only fair.

Why are these charities not funding prenatal care or better health care in the countries themselves, sending kids to college so that the transplants can be done in their own country. Maybe I am a cock eyed optimist, but we spend multimillions in donations / taxes for an immigrants to have major surgery or multiple birthes here. But we won't spend smaller amounts to enable them to do it themselves?

If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day - if you teach him to fish he eats for life.

And on the issue of transplants. I can have a 95 y/o eaten up with cancer, septic as heck, w/macular degeneration, renal and respiratory failure .... and the eye bank will still want the eyes "For research Purposes" As If!!!!!!!!!

While I feel saddened by this girl's plight, there are definitely something seriously wrong with the systems .... and not just ours.

mattsmom81 · Feb 22, 2003

Originally posted by caroladybelle
Several Asian countries do not accept the concept of "Brain Death" (Correct me if I am wrong, I believe Japan is/was one). If you cannot certify that someone has died until their heart stops, it makes it almost impossible to arrange a heart, lung or heart and lung transplant d/t the short time that those organs are viable outside a physiologically "living" body - As such , many Japanese were coming here or countries w/more liberal parameters for some transplants. My question is why they do not pressure their own government into permitting the use of "Brain Death " as death so that the transplants can be done in their own country. It seems only fair.

Why are these charities not funding prenatal care or better health care in the countries themselves, sending kids to college so that the transplants can be done in their own country. Maybe I am a cock eyed optimist, but we spend multimillions in donations / taxes for an immigrants to have major surgery or multiple birthes here. But we won't spend smaller amounts to enable them to do it themselves?

If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day - if you teach him to fish he eats for life.

And on the issue of transplants. I can have a 95 y/o eaten up with cancer, septic as heck, w/macular degeneration, renal and respiratory failure .... and the eye bank will still want the eyes "For research Purposes" As If!!!!!!!!!

While I feel saddened by this girl's plight, there are definitely something seriously wrong with the systems .... and not just ours.

Excellent comments! I would like to see American charities helping Americans and stop this ridiculous need they seem to have to save the third world. There is PLENTY of work to be done at home...and if this makes me 'racist' so be it...I would like to see us help our own first. We simply enable third world countries to be dependent and avoid responsibility. (We do the same with our welfare system, IMHO)

There are indeed lots of problems in the system...and those of us who live in border states see only too well the problems. Yes we are sensitive. I see hospitals bankrupted here...a big factor is the treatment of illegals who don't pay a dime, and feel entitled, and come here to hook up with our welfare system. Yes this REALLY IS HAPPENING....I live here and see it.

Our country won't ever be safe again until we look at our ridiculously lax immigration policies, and our income taxes alone will be 28% and up until we revamp welfare, which was NEVER created to morph into the crutch it is today. These are my own opinions of course and I'm CERTAIN the bleeding hearts will disagree....LOL!

While I am sad for this girl, brain damage is a risk of CABG and transplant surgery anywhere. The fact the hospital made a mistake will enable this family to become millionaires. And yes, our tax dollars will help fund this.