Would You Accept Swine Flu Vaccine?

[pagandeva2000]

My facility had a town hall meeting and announced that this year, it will be mandatory for all direct care staff to get the flu shot, and that they expect the swine flu vaccine to be ready this year, around October, and that we would be mandated to take that as well to protect the patients we care for. I am not very comfortable being mandated to take anything...this would be a brand new vaccine. Why should I be the guinea pig? Thoughts?

[GadgetRN71, ASN, RN]

I got the seasonal flu shot a few weeks ago and will get the swine flu one when it comes(our facility will have them sometime this month). I'm a proponent of vaccines and furthermore, I have asthma, which puts me into a high risk group.

I'm torn. I think that it shouldn't be forced on anyone but by the same token, why wouldn't someone get a flu shot? I work with people who still think you can get the flu from the flu shot..These are educated people too. It boggles my mind. But, as much as I don't agree with the anti-vaccination agenda, I still think it should be a personal choice.

However, I'd be all for incentives to get the shot. Maybe that would work better? We nurses respond pretty well to bribery and presents.

[tewdles, RN]

I completely agree that mandation of vaccination by some hospitals and facilities is most likely overreaction. Such measures are generally not necessary in the absence of a recommendation from the CDC. I would love it if my employer would bribe me to get the vaccine!

[lamazeteacher]

lamaze teacher -

the field tests are no where near as long as new vaccines should be.

best of luck.

are you thinking that dozens of years of human field testing are necessary to make you feel secure getting the vaccine? by then the virus will have mutated to something else.......

if everyone felt that way, communicable diseases would still be be rampant on this continent, that are now in the past - think diphtheria, gtetorifice, pertussis (to some extent in the past), smallpox, measles, mumps, chicken pox, mumps, rubella and "red measles" (i've forgotten the correct name, for now of that last one - it will probably wake me up tonight.....).

thank you for your good wishes.:loveya:

[tewdles, RN]

I managed a PICU during the implementation of the Haemophilus Influenza B vaccine. Prior to the vaccine our PICU would expand from 13 to 30 beds by expanding into the adjacent trauma/adolescent unit during the HIB season. We tried to save the lives of children with HIB tracheitis, pneumonia, epiglottitis, meningitis, etc. Most of our patients survived, most with scars and complications that would long outlive the illness itself. An alarming number of those children, however, did not survive...or suffered catastrophic damage as a direct result of the illness. When the vaccine was rolled out the efficacy was immediately apparent. The first year they offered the vaccine enough of the service area for got the vaccination that the normal seasonal outbreak we planned for DID NOT HAPPEN. The first year of the vaccine the PICU population of HIB infected patients dropped by 40%. That bug never caused us to have to spread into the adjacent unit again after that. Pediatric death with that bug as a cause became an uncommon event in our hospital after the vaccine. It was really a remarkable demonstration of the benefit of a vaccine.

[MissBrittanyRN]

This is not a statement, this is a question, in the form of a statement lol:

The seasonal flu vaccine is different every year, so technically, we are getting a brand new vaccine every year if we accept the seasonal flu shot. Is that correct? Is the swine flu shot different? Is it influenza, but a different strain? Aren't the strains different every year? So what makes the swine flu shot more dangerous than the seasonal flu shot you go last year, because last year wasn't that a brand new shot too?

thanks

[PatricParamedic]

LamazeTeacher; Tewdles; SquirrelRN:

I'm not naive enough to paint all innoculations with the same broad brush. But let me ask you this - If there were a cafe in your town with its windows covered with Health & Safety Code violation notices, would you take your family to eat there?

You may want to take a peak at what can now be found re: GlaxoSmithKline's history when it comes to honesty. How anyone can ignore it is well beyond me.

The creators of much of the world's H1N1 vaccine have racked up quite a string of ugly behavior, including intimidating Dr. John Buse of UNC Chapel Hill, when he pointed out the serious risks of Avandia. (just do a web search with both names together)

New York State Attorney General brought a successful lawsuit against GSK for not posting "all" results of drug studies. (check N.Y. A.G. action site)

Iowa Senator Grassley's documentation was placed into the Congressional Record - namely that GSK was ignoring the FDA - of all people - in being open & honest about drug studies. (numerous online sources)

Doctor Andrew Mosholder, an FDA official, said this: "GlaxoSmithKline was attempting to 'sugar-coat' the adverse effects of Paxil on children by 'miscoding' suicidal ideations and/or suicidal behavior." (easily found online)

The largest IRS fine in history? GSK's 3.1 Billion. (IRS website)

I simply no longer automatically have the faith I used to, in companies that follow up multi-billion dollar lawsuits - not with better behavior - but with more billion-dollar lawsuits. And yet the game goes on.

You may want to look into what the World Health Org. had to say about GSK's lying regarding Paroxetine.

My argument? I just don't trust the source, and therefore cannot trust the product. And our medical system which does phenomenal good for society - the basis of my career for 30 years - baffles me, by continuing to allow companies like this to attain unimaginable wealth by advertising "It's safe. Trust us."

They are simply not worthy of our trust, in my humble opinion.

[tewdles, RN]

PatricParamedic please continue to make choices for yourself and your family based upon that information and your concerns. Please, however, be cautious about discouraging use of the vaccine among co-workers and the general public based upon your opinion. Both the CDC and WHO are rightfully concerned about the possibility of another influenza pandemic and the primary way that a pandemic can be combated is by the vaccination of an adequate percentage of the population. Severe outbreaks can be controlled if enough of the population have an immunity to the illness. There is currently NOTHING reported that supports the notion that this particular vaccine is more dangerous than any other vaccine. While I may not trust GSK, I do know that VAERS is not controlled by the pharmaceutical companies and therefore the reporting of adverse reactions to vaccines is NOT related to the honesty of the producer.

I am well aware of the risks to vaccination. I am also well aware of the risks of not vaccinating. In the course of my career I had the privilege of serving on a regional committee which dealt directly with immunization of the public. Unless the numbers have changed substantially in the past 10 years, I know that maybe 150k reports to VAERS occur with administration of a couple billion doses of vaccines. I know that maybe 15-20% of those reports are considered "serious" (fever accounts for 25% of the reports). We are talking several thousand people. So, while I am not cold to the fact that some individuals (often children) may have significant reactions to vaccines, possibly resulting in death, I acknowledge that overall, immunization has been a very successful health policy.

In the face of what the experts worry could be another pandemic I firmly advocate for a very measured, informed response to inquiries by the public regarding this vaccine. As nurses we are seen as excellent resources by those in our sphere of influence. We are specifically trained to give information to people in a way so as to impart confidence and trust; we educate. We often have the influence to cause modification of health behaviors in the people we speak to. I believe that we should give people the factual information about this strain of influenza and the vaccine. I believe we should be cautious about making people fearful of the vaccine just as I think we should be cautious about making them fearful of the virus. You have every right to make a choice about this vaccine because of the misdeeds of the company and your distrust of them. I question, however, the wisdom of fanning growing flames of corporate mistrust that are already present in the population at this particular time.

[indigo girl]

I simply no longer automatically have the faith I used to,

My argument? I just don't trust the source

And, saying that the not released yet swine flu vaccine was "tested" by sending it to a lab, and then further stating that it contained ajuvants which are not even licensed in the US is a credibility issue as well.

That vaccine was just released today, Oct 5th 2009.

My argument, I don't trust the source.

[PatricParamedic]

The list of medical professionals around this world who have assessed the H1N1 vs vaccine risks, and made the informed decision to avoid the drug, is huge and growing. The nursing poll at the top of this page makes a fairly profound statement in itself. The fact that 99% of the victims of this virus recover just fine with no medical intervention whatsoever speaks exactly what needs to be said.

For the record, those of us flatly against this "inoculate the masses for Godsakes" trend, are not the ones fanning flames. The "flames" got fanned the moment the CDC issued the totally irresponsible statement that 90,000 American lives" could be lost. That sends perfectly healthy people into drug-induced feeding frenzy that is immoral on its face.

In the meantime, the skyrocketing of childhood diabetes and other diseases goes surprisingly through the roof.

Just my opinion.

[indigo girl]

The list of medical professionals around this world who have assessed the H1N1 vs vaccine risks, and made the informed decision to avoid the drug, is huge and growing. The nursing poll at the top of this page makes a fairly profound statement in itself. The fact that 99% of the victims of this virus recover just fine with no medical intervention whatsoever speaks exactly what needs to be said.

For the record, those of us flatly against this "inoculate the masses for Godsakes" trend, are not the ones fanning flames. The "flames" got fanned the moment the CDC issued the totally irresponsible statement that 90,000 American lives" could be lost. That sends perfectly healthy people into drug-induced feeding frenzy that is immoral on its face.

In the meantime, the skyrocketing of childhood diabetes and other diseases goes surprisingly through the roof.

Just my opinion.

This has nothing to do with opinion.

Saying that the not released yet swine flu vaccine was "tested" by sending it to a lab, and then further stating that it contained ajuvants which are not even licensed in the US requires a credible source.

That vaccine was just released today, Oct 5th 2009.

[indigo girl]

duplicate post

[Scrub Monkey]

My hospital is now requiring all employees in direct contact with patients who decline either the seasonal flu or new H1N1 vaccine to wear a mask while on the premises for the duration of the flu season, roughly 6-7 months. This is obviously more a tactic of intimidation than that rooted in science, as we at present are not required to wear these masks while we wait another month for the H1N1 vaccines to arrive all the while being within the window of the flu season. In addition, the CDC also refers to the wearing of an N95 mask as offering "imperfect" protection. http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/masks.htm And my union sits by silent, ignoring my emails and calls to them, even when made aware of the Washington State Nurses Union coming to the defense of its nurses' right to decline vaccination and not be forced to wear a mask.

I'm afraid these are dark times, when Big Pharm seems in control and immune from litigation from damages thanks to congressional protection. A time where as a health care professional, I have to risk my own health and that of my patients in the face of draconian mandates rooted in paranoia not science.