Women's Right to Choose

Nurses General Nursing

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I haven't seen this conversation come up on AllNurses, even after Scrubs Mag addressed the erosion of women's right to choose. I apologize if this is too much of a hot-button issue to open up for discussion, but I'm curious as to where folks on here stand when it comes to the increase in states passing restrictive abortion laws, in some cases nearly eliminating it altogether. If the mods are afraid, like I am (especially after seeing how some of the Facebook discussions devolved after Scrubs Mag posted their article there), that this can't remain a civil discussion, please feel free to take it down now. I just feel that this is an important discussion that needs to take place. After Missouri Rep. Barry Hovis spoke of the vast majority of rape being date rape and "consensual rape", Virginia State Sen. Steve Martin (R) stated "A pregnant woman is just a “host” that should not have the right to end her pregnancy", and VP Pence's comments about being "proud to be part of pro-life administration", I'm feeling increasingly disturbed about this country's lack of regard toward women.

Just now, CamMc said:

You have been all over this topic insulting people, insinuating that people who don’t see embryos as human are akin to nazis. Who is the intolerant one here? Like I said I have no problem with religion, my last boyfriend was Muslim, I have many family members who are Christian, my two younger cousins are or are in training to become pastors, they love and accept me, just as I love and accept them. I have a great number of friends who are Christian, including several who are Mormon, I have friends who are Jewish. I can put my disbelief in religion aside and help those in need free of judgment. I only brought up religion as you used an article that is clearly biased to try and counter argue someone using an article saying that it was biased.

No... I said that Sanger was a Nazi sympathizer, hitler invited her to speak and she had a member Hitler’s regime speak at one of her events. I made the analogy that saying an embryo isn’t human is the same thing the Nazi’s said about the Jews... Neither of those statements were directed as personal insults. Those people of faith love you because they are people of faith. That is what people of faith... REAL faith... do. Sure there are plenty of bad religious people... there are plenty of bad people in every group.

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Specializes in CTICU.
Just now, Scrunchkin78 said:

No... I said that Sanger was a Nazi sympathizer, hitler invited her to speak and she had a member Hitler’s regime speak at one of her events.

I'm asking again- please cite this, quote it, where did she speak and who spoke at her event?

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5 minutes ago, sarolarn said:

I never said you were a bad person, and no one said anything about evil intent. You made a statement that your favorite family is a religious minority, and I attached a link to a story about how this defense is seen as problematic in today's society.

On the subject of tolerance, though; you have your opinion on abortion and that is fine- you can have your opinion and live every day of your life behind it. Your opinion doesn't mandate me to live by your beliefs, though. Everyone gets to have an opinion and they can be worlds apart from one another, but that's just it- it's an opinion, and it should have no place in the laws that preside over my or anyone else's body. Your opinions and your beliefs are yours, while mine are mine. Your beliefs and your opinions should have no weight in the writing of laws that dictate how anyone lives their lives. My body, my choice; just like your body, your choice.

Interesting that my beliefs should not be in laws but it’s okay for your beliefs to be in laws. I have said I fully support abortion to save the life of the mother. I support abortion for horrible congenital deformities. I don’t believe in abortion on demand or for just any purpose. It should be a medical procedure... just like a hysterectomy is a procedure. I would LOVE to get my uterus out but I can’t get it done because it’s not medically necessary. I support medically necessary abortions. But a health baby is it’s own body and should have it’d own rights. I wish we could transplant the embryos... it would be a marvelous advance to take an unwanted embryo and implant it into a woman who is infertile. Seems like a win, win.

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3 minutes ago, Scrunchkin78 said:

No... I said that Sanger was a Nazi sympathizer, hitler invited her to speak and she had a member Hitler’s regime speak at one of her events. I made the analogy that saying an embryo isn’t human is the same thing the Nazi’s said about the Jews... Neither of those statements were directed as personal insults. Those people of faith love you because they are people of faith. That is what people of faith... REAL faith... do. Sure there are plenty of bad religious people... there are plenty of bad people in every group.

Yes, there are bad people in every group, the people using their beliefs (religious or otherwise) to control others to live by their beliefs...I'm done with this conversation, you have your religious beliefs and are obviously very passionate about them, so go help a charity with providing COMPLETE sex education to teens and young adults, donate to causes that will help people be able to parent if they choose to. Arguing with all of us about how a fetus is a human and no one should murder an innocent child does nothing for anyone. I'm going into nursing to help others and it sounds like that's what you try to do too, so let's just agree I'll mind my own business and let you do what's best for you and you should also keep that attitude and let the people with unintended pregnancies do what's best for them.

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Specializes in CTICU.
Just now, Scrunchkin78 said:

Interesting that my beliefs should not be in laws but it’s okay for your beliefs to be in laws.

My beliefs wouldn't be in laws, it would be a lack of beliefs in law to allow a pregnant person to choose what happens to their own body. Most will carry, some will not. You do not know my opinion on abortion, and it will remain that way.

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Specializes in Pediatrics Retired.

So...who gets the last word?

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17 minutes ago, sarolarn said:

I'm asking again- please cite this, quote it, where did she speak and who spoke at her event?

Please review the “Proceedings of the World Population Conference 1927”. In the conference she gave a leadership role to Eugen Fischer, a German eugenicist who founded the Society for Race Hygiene and was key to Hitler’s ideas on the perfection of the Aryan race. Unfortunately the Proceedings can’t be linked... you have to be a student or pay to read it online. That is the most direct and accurate source - any other source is just a paraphrase. Feel free to google “World Population Conference of 1927 and Eugen Fischer” and read it if you like.

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12 minutes ago, OldDude said:

So...who gets the last word?

Not it. ?

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25 minutes ago, CamMc said:

Yes, there are bad people in every group, the people using their beliefs (religious or otherwise) to control others to live by their beliefs...I'm done with this conversation, you have your religious beliefs and are obviously very passionate about them, so go help a charity with providing COMPLETE sex education to teens and young adults, donate to causes that will help people be able to parent if they choose to. Arguing with all of us about how a fetus is a human and no one should murder an innocent child does nothing for anyone. I'm going into nursing to help others and it sounds like that's what you try to do too, so let's just agree I'll mind my own business and let you do what's best for you and you should also keep that attitude and let the people with unintended pregnancies do what's best for them.

Thank you (and yes I mean it). I do try very hard to provide the best for my patients. Good luck on your studies. ?

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Specializes in CTICU.
3 minutes ago, Scrunchkin78 said:

Please review the “Proceedings of the World Population Conference 1927”. In the conference she gave a leadership role to Eugen Fischer, a German eugenicist who founded the Society for Race Hygiene and was key to Hitler’s ideas on the perfection of the Aryan race. Unfortunately the Proceedings can’t be linked... you have to be a student or pay to read it online. That is the most direct and accurate source - any other source is just a paraphrase. Feel free to google “World Population Conference of 1927 and Eugen Fischer” and read it if you like.

I still have access to my school library but don't see anything linking Margaret Sanger with Eugen Fischer. I don't see anything for Proceedings of the World Population Conference 1927, my query matches no results. I also am not able to find anything for "Margaret Sanger" + "eugenics".

I did find this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3884362

and this: https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents/show.php?sangerDoc=420004.xml

the only sites that I find claiming Sanger as a eugenicist are conservative such as the Family Research Council.

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Specializes in Hospice.
1 hour ago, Persephone Paige said:

Have the people like you, who believe in it, pay for it. Get together, create a scholarship for abortions, crowd fund.

We have been, for nigh on a quarter century now. For instance, google “Yellowhammer Fund”

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27 minutes ago, sarolarn said:

I still have access to my school library but don't see anything linking Margaret Sanger with Eugen Fischer. I don't see anything for Proceedings of the World Population Conference 1927, my query matches no results. I also am not able to find anything for "Margaret Sanger" + "eugenics".

I did find this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3884362

and this: https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents/show.php?sangerDoc=420004.xml

the only sites that I find claiming Sanger as a eugenicist are conservative such as the Family Research Council.

Here is a link to the citation. I tried to find an open source link but no luck or I would have posted it.

https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/001310207

Here is a link to one of her direct writings. Her discussion of birth control is deceptive when reading it with modern eyes. It sounds logical because we think of birth control as common place. She wrote this in 1921 and the birth control pill was not invented until the 1960s. The rhythm method was not published as a scientific option until the 1930s. So the options for birth control at this time were abstinence and abortion at the time of her writing this article and she clearly doesn’t agree with abstinence. Oh and pessary....almost forgot.

https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents/show.php?sangerDoc=238946.xml

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