Will Protests Lead to More COVID Surges?

Nurses COVID

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Disclaimer: I know that I can't control what people post on this forum, but I'm asking that we keep the discussion as apolitical and health-centered as possible. I know there are a lot of strong opinions about police brutality, protests, and riots/vandalism/looting. If you're interested to hear people's thoughts on those topics, there's an interesting, non-healthcare discussion in the US Politics Club on AN:

https://allnurses.com/riots-minneapolis-t720621/

Is anybody else seriously concerned that we might see a large surge in covid cases following all of these protests?

Last week, people were yelling on the TV about how irresponsible it was to begin Phases I/II and let people gather in groups of 10. Now, literally tens of thousands of people are gathering, and the media/public seem shockingly unconcerned. I feel like I'm getting social distancing policy whiplash.

Most of the protest pictures I've seen depict protesters wearing masks and attempting to follow covid guidelines. However, there are a ton of pics of people wearing masks incorrectly (under their noses or chins), and it's pretty much impossible to socially distance in protest/riot conditions. It seems like a nearly impossible environment to practice good hand hygiene. Plus, people are out yelling/chanting and projecting their droplets even further. I'm just so glad that they're outside instead of in a confined space.

I fully support peoples' right to demonstrate, and I generally support the protesters' rhetoric, but this seems like a recipe for disaster. With covid concerns still lingering, it seems like the worst possible time for people to be out congregating.

I'm especially worried about covid having a vastly disproportionate on black communities by the time this is all over. By now, we've probably all seen the data showing that African Americans are dying from covid at disproportionately higher rates than other races. Even if high-risk people are staying home from protests, I fear that protests could increase the spread through communities by contact with protesters. Of course, once it's out circulating in the community, the virus will be harmful to people of all races. To be perfectly honest, I also worry about huge outbreaks through the police force, too.

Even before all of this began, many states were starting Phase I/II despite an increasing numbers of cases. My state had the biggest spike we'd ever seen the day before Phase II started, and we went ahead with Phase II anyway (just before Memorial Day, when a ton of people were out socializing and ignoring distancing orders). It seems like the protests will fuel the spread of covid even further.

Outside of the big metro areas, most cities had relatively tiny covid surges since the stay at home orders were so effective. It seems like the smaller impact has lulled citizens of those cities/states into a false sense of security. I'm concerned that places like Minneapolis, which experienced a smaller impact the first go around, are going to see huge, unprecedented surges and start running out of beds/vents.

Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
5 minutes ago, juniper222 said:

And everyone was all up in arms because Trump was encouraging the lockdown protests over concern of spreading the virus while politicians are encouraging this protest. Just shows the hypocrisy.

Places where the virus was under some control will now get a spike because of all the out of town rioters who came in.

The current protesters enjoy a significant percentage who are masking and trying to mitigate risk while the previous protesters were largely intentionally ignoring public health recommendations. Regardless, they are risking spread, illness and death to protest bad and dangerous policing. That's a righteous cause...

3 Votes

Great way to stop police brutality, by burning down our cities.

3 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
27 minutes ago, Hoosier_RN said:

Realistically, the disease is either deadly in largely populated gatherings, regardless of the reason, or it isn't. The government and the media can't have it both ways

Shrugs

People have long been willing to risk their lives to protest police brutality. All of a sudden a bunch of noise is being made about these protests, and the COVID risk, by some of the same people who were supporting the partisan economic protests only days before. It's amusing though...

2 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 minutes ago, juniper222 said:

Great way to stop police brutality, by burning down our cities.

Shrugs

Great way to serve and protect the citizens...by brutalizing, intimidating, dehumanizing, beating, or murdering them on a routine basis with immunity.

2 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.

Can we listen? Will us white folk feel a need to argue with her?

5 Votes

I think that the initial question as to whether or not protests (specifically the protests surrounding the murder of George Floyd) will lead to a spike in corona virus cases is a fairly innocuous-seeming question on the surface. However, it is also a very political question (as evidenced by many of these responses). And maybe it is being asked on the forum now because the number of people attending these protests compared to the number of people attending the lockdown protests is far greater and pose a seemingly greater public health risk. But is it the question arising from these protests that we should be debating?

I believe that there is an urgency to protest the racial injustices that we see occurring on a daily basis in this country. We have video of a murder evidencing that this is an issue that can't wait. Unlike the fact that states will reopen, there is no such guarantees that racial inequality will change. I would argue that if it isn't protested now, it will only get worse.

In general, I think the consensus from epidemiologists has been that there is a risk that Coronavirus will spread with any sort of large gathering where people are in close proximity to one another. I don't know what type of official response people are hoping for who are upset? There have already been curfews. And the CDC is encouraging protestors to get tested for Covid. Just as the anti-lockdown protestors have been allowed to exercise their first amendment right, so have the BLM protestors.

4 Votes
Specializes in Dialysis.
1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

LOL

Some people understand that racial injustice and police brutality are issues of greater import than whether or not hair salons and restaurants are open. The attempt to equate the clearly disparate value of the concerns is typical behavior from oppressors and those content with the world the oppressor maintains. But here we are...

Oppressed people are not allowed to go where they wish, be it the hairdresser, church, or Dr. So it seems you have it backwards, by your own standards.

3 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
21 minutes ago, Hoosier_RN said:

Oppressed people are not allowed to go where they wish, be it the hairdresser, church, or Dr. So it seems you have it backwards, by your own standards.

You are the one equating public health recommendations during a deadly pandemic with government or police oppression...that seems to reflect confusion about what oppression entails or describes. Stating that something is backwards is not the same as providing a reasoned argument that makes the point that something is backwards.

I'm going to guess that physical violence against blacks is more oppressive than closing retail businesses during a public health crisis...that's what sociologists and historians suggest, anyway.

2 Votes
Quote

Great way to stop police brutality, by burning down our cities.

Is that really all you see? Cities being burned down? I’m in Europe so I’ve only seen the protests on TV, but from here they look like most demonstrations l’ve ever worked. A majority peacefully assembling to express their opinions, and a minority with a completely different agenda. Why choose to focus solely on the criminals, instead of paying attention to the message of those who are not engaging in vandalism, theft and arson?

Regarding the spread of Covid-19, it seems highly likely that when people who do not normally live or work together, start congregating in close proximity, the virus will find new paths of transmission and infect new populations. It’s a virus. Of course it won’t behave any differently based on the reason people have for being in close proximity to one another.

That said; personally I’m much more sympathetically inclined towards people protesting police misconduct or a group of hairdressers who’ve been unable to work for two months and their children are now starving, than I am towards a group of protesters who demand their right to have their hair cut whenever and wherever, even if that poses a serious risk to other people’s health. But that’s just my personal feelings on the matter. Makes no difference to the ?

7 Votes
Specializes in Dialysis.
3 minutes ago, macawake said:

Is that really all you see? Cities being burned down? I’m in Europe so I’ve only seen the protests on TV, but from here they look like most demonstrations l’ve ever worked. A majority peacefully assembling to express their opinions, and a minority with a completely different agenda. Why choose to focus solely on the criminals, instead of paying attention to the message of those who are not engaging in vandalism, theft and arson?

Regarding the spread of Covid-19, it seems highly likely that when people who do not normally live or work together, start congregating in close proximity, the virus will find new paths of transmission and infect new populations. It’s a virus. Of course it won’t behave any differently based on the reason people have for being in close proximity to one another.

That said; personally I’m much more sympathetically inclined towards people protesting police misconduct or a group of hairdressers who’ve been unable to work for two months and their children are now starving, than I am towards a group of protesters who demand the right to have their hair cut whenever and wherever, even if that poses a serious risk to other people’s health. But that’s just my personal feelings on the matter. Makes no difference to the ?

It's sad because the media sensationalizes and focuses on the negative. Many of us here know of, or at least have heard of, peaceful protest. Its hard to separate it out when you have the media hyping the horrible ALL day

3 Votes
Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
33 minutes ago, Hoosier_RN said:

It's sad because the media sensationalizes and focuses on the negative. Many of us here know of, or at least have heard of, peaceful protest. Its hard to separate it out when you have the media hyping the horrible ALL day

Most of the reporting from the outlets I follow are focused upon the peaceful protests and the violent police and federal response to the peaceful protests. The journalists are documenting the efforts of the police to intimidate the protesters into silence and compliance with their status quo. They are cataloging the violent group behavior of the police as they seek to control the right to assemble, again. They also note and report on police who have protested with the larger group against police brutality.

I wonder what media is mostly focused upon the rioting...you know...that small subset of people intentionally causing trouble for the protesters, rather than on the real and righteous reason for the protests. That seems like very biased and skewed reporting. I might widen my media choices if it appeared I wasn't getting the important facts needed to discern truth for myself.

6 Votes

Hoosier_RN, if you’ve only heard of, but not seen the many peaceful protesters, I think you’ve either been watching ”If it bleeds it leads” TV or a media outlet that has a political agenda and wants to paint the protests in a certain light.

If I was in charge of a TV station and wanted to delegitimize the protesters’ message, I’d only air footage of looting and other criminal behavior. If I on the other hand wanted to report negatively on the police, I would only show scenes of people peacefully protesting, and leave out those engaged in violent and criminal behavior, even of the acts were occurring right next to the peaceful protesters. That way I could make any aggressive move the police makes look highly suspect. It’s not hard to manipulate the impression a viewer will get.

As I’ve mentioned, I’ve mostly followed the reporting in various European media. I’ve seen both rioting and peaceful protesters. The peaceful protesters appear to outnumber the criminals by a fairly large margin. And I’ve seen some scenes where I really question police tactics. It’s hard to judge from a distance, and with only partial information available. But some of the actions some of the officers take, look highly questionable. Others are likely only trying to finish their shift in one piece.

I’ve been at the receiving end (previous career) of hard and heavy objects thrown at me and facing huge crowds where a portion of that crowd was armed with various blunt and some sharp objects (and who knows what else hidden out of view/under clothing), many of them under the influence of something or other and clearly demonstrating hostile intent. I’m not exaggerating when I say that it’s not at all a comfortable situation and it’s easy to get tunnel vision.

8 Votes
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