For a while now I've been reading about the so called nursing shortage and today I read a thread that discusses this issue and the general opinion that the problem is the poor working environment, pay etc. So I can't help but wonder why we aren't organized. Surely if ALL of us were unionized we'd be in a better position to negotiate. I live in Denmark where 97% of all nurses are union members. Things are not perfect here, but better than the US I think.
So, what do all of you think? Why aren't we more organized? Seems like I've read somewhere that ca. 30% of american nurses are unionized?
I don't agree ....and thank you for not attacking me.
In one arguement, nurses say that we are not perceived by society as being as valuable as we truely are....in your arguement, you are saying that I value my contribution to society TOO MUCH. Oh Please!
If our job is not that important, then why the discussion about unionization anyway?
If our job is not that important, then why the discussion about low pay for RNs in another thread?
My step-father is a retired Ford auto worker - did the job for 35+ years. I don't feel better than him...I feel that I should be viewed as a professional person in a professional community separate from workers in the auto industry or any other unionized industry.
My step-father didn't go to college and no one died if he screwed up. He also wouldn't be risking someone's life by going on strike. There are huge differences between what we do as RN's and what many do on the line at Ford or GM for example. If we don't distinguish ourselves and our differences apart from these other UNIONIZED jobs (electrician, carpenter, etc..), then how can we advance as a profession?
I'm very anti-union in nursing. The only experience/exposure that I've had to nursing unions was very negative. Back in nursing school we had a visit from reps from a local nursing union. Needless to say they were the most unprofessional bunch of nurses I've seen so far. They were to have given a presentation on unions and what their purpose was. Instead, it was a general gripe session over the poor quality of the facility where they worked and the poor treatment of nurses in that facility. The presentation was in very poor taste to say the least.
So, maybe you can understand why I have such a negative view of unions and professionalism in nursing. If those union reps had carried themselves more professionaly to begin with I may be more open to it. However, I DON'T want reps like that to make decisions on my behalf, no thank you. I'll make my own decisions and fight my own battles.
I can appreciate your dislike based upon your previous experience with unions, but I think one of the points several others have stated is that you should understand MDs are in a union, so the argument that representation by a union=nonprofessional is faulty. To be fair though, be thankful that you don't have any need for union representation in your current situation, but I'd advise you to never say never. Read some of the threads where nurses have been nothing short of screwed by hospital admin and understand that with union representation, that probably doesn't happen.
I can appreciate your dislike based upon your previous experience with unions, but I think one of the points several others have stated is that you should understand MDs are in a union, so the argument that representation by a union=nonprofessional is faulty.
MD's are not in a union. The AMA is not a union. It has similarities, but that's all. If the AMA is a union, then so is the ANA. The argument is absurd on it's face.
MD's are not in a union. The AMA is not a union. It has similarities, but that's all. If the AMA is a union, then so is the ANA. The argument is absurd on it's face.
So since the June 23, 1999 vote for the AMA to become a "national labor organization" by it's members has been reversed? I guess I'm not keeping up with things.
I was a computer programmer/IT professional for 25 years. Those jobs are now in Inda and Romania. So, at age 51, I am in nursing school, so that I can have a job and health insurance, since Social Security will probably be a mess by the time I want it.
A union might have helped the IT industry.
Look at teacher's unions. They are considered professionals, and they are POWERFUL. In my town, if you are a high school teacher with a Master's degree, a coach, and experience, you make 80-90,000 or more.
Until nurses unionize, we will not get what we need (money and job security, good working conditions).
And you all had better worry about the influx of foreign nurses. The H1-B visa helped to destoy the IT industry, and it can do a lot of damage to nursing.
I was a computer programmer/IT professional for 25 years. Those jobs are now in Inda and Romania. So, at age 51, I am in nursing school, so that I can have a job and health insurance, since Social Security will probably be a mess by the time I want it.
A union might have helped the IT industry.
Look at teacher's unions. They are considered professionals, and they are POWERFUL. In my town, if you are a high school teacher with a Master's degree, a coach, and experience, you make 80-90,000 or more.
Until nurses unionize, we will not get what we need (money and job security, good working conditions).
And you all had better worry about the influx of foreign nurses. The H1-B visa helped to destoy the IT industry, and it can do a lot of damage to nursing.
oldiebutgoodie
Is that all teachers make, then I really feel sorry for them.
Ive always had good money, and job security, and good working conditions wherever Ive been, so what would I need a union for except for them to take a cut of my money.
Is that all teachers make, then I really feel sorry for them.
Ive always had good money, and job security, and good working conditions wherever Ive been, so what would I need a union for except for them to take a cut of my money.
So evaluations are worthless, and good or bad nurses are paid the same? That's a crock. And you're so blinded by your union that you ignore the real world. Our hospital doles out plenty of raises and incentive pay for their nurses. They would rather pay it to their own than have to hire travelers who are halfway through their 13 wk contract before they're even oriented to the paperwork.
Show me an objective evaluation process and I will be the first one on board. The fact is NO evaluation is ever objective. The hospital I work at gives out incentive pay for nurses, beyond the cost of living adjustments. We have Staff Nurse III and staff Nurse IV for nurses going the extra mile and there are rewards for attendance. But I don't have to kiss my manager's A** , I can actually be an advocate for my patients and still get my due raises.
Show me an objective evaluation process and I will be the first one on board. The fact is NO evaluation is ever objective. The hospital I work at gives out incentive pay for nurses, beyond the cost of living adjustments. We have Staff Nurse III and staff Nurse IV for nurses going the extra mile and there are rewards for attendance. But I don't have to kiss my manager's A** , I can actually be an advocate for my patients and still get my due raises.
I've never had to kiss my manager's A** . .. if that was the criteria for being treated fairly and getting raises and being allowed to be my patients advocate I'd raise hell or quit.
Things are not so black and white that all non-union jobs are as you describe.
I am an lpn. I have worked in facilities that were union and not union. What is the purpose of the union? Because when I worked in places where a union was in place they always got paid less then places w/o and on top of it they pay union dues and they was just as much problems with staffing as most places nowadays. And I saw no benefit one example where I used to work we had 4 weeks vacation they union members traded one week of vacation for mr. luther king day, I saw it as if u want that day off take it. U still have 4 more days, I feel working in a private facility they pay more at least where I live in ny. I worked in one of the top hospitals in ny in the OR my salary was starting at 34,100(union). I am came out of nursing school with no working exp. starting at 38,00(non-union)2001. I am starting a new job w/ union that actually pays ok(44,000/y). So maybe it not the union it is the people working their because they seem to be getting the message across here.
So evaluations are worthless, and good or bad nurses are paid the same? That's a crock. And you're so blinded by your union that you ignore the real world. Our hospital doles out plenty of raises and incentive pay for their nurses. They would rather pay it to their own than have to hire travelers who are halfway through their 13 wk contract before they're even oriented to the paperwork.
YOU ARE FORTUNATE TO WORK AT A HOSPITAL THAT DOES REWARD THEIR NURSING STAFF. THE HOSPITAL THAT I WORK AT NOW STARTS THEIR RN'S AT 17.50 PER HOUR. WE ALSO HAVE A 2% COST OF LIVING RAISE TO LOOK FOREWARD TO. THE NURSING HOME PAYS 30-32 PER HOUR FOR RN'S . THIS HOSPITAL CANNOT FIGURE OUT WHY THEY ARE UNABLE TO RECRUIT NURSES. FOR DECEMBER, THERE ARE SOME DAYS THAT THERE IS NO RN SCHEDULED. JUST AREN'T ANY. I WORK PER DIEM, THEREFORE I MAKE A MUCH BETTER RATE THAN STAFF OR I WOULDN'T WORK EITHER.
I, too, have worked on both sides of the fence, so to speak. I used to love my job and the pay was great. I loved the people I worked with and management was outstanding. When all of that changed, I left. That private hospital would never be unionized.
I've been a nurse since 1986, and I used to think that nursing was no place for a union. However, in today's times, we need to have job protection. The new overtime law that just passed will take away the overtime of some nurses if they make over a certain salary. Our contract specifically states that we will be paid overtime for hours worked and for holidays. If it isn't covered in the contract, then management can do what they please.
We haven't gone out on strike and left our patients without care. We fight for our rights in regard to wages, vacation, promotions, work environment, and other areas that affect our compensation for the great job we do!
Show me an objective evaluation process and I will be the first one on board. The fact is NO evaluation is ever objective. The hospital I work at gives out incentive pay for nurses, beyond the cost of living adjustments. We have Staff Nurse III and staff Nurse IV for nurses going the extra mile and there are rewards for attendance. But I don't have to kiss my manager's A** , I can actually be an advocate for my patients and still get my due raises.
I have never seen an objective evaluation. It has been my experience that we are all paid pretty much the same. In fact at my local hospital there is not a dollar difference that separates a new grad from someone like me - 10 year nurse, BSN, working on MSN, ICU, ER
PMHNP10
1,041 Posts
I can appreciate your dislike based upon your previous experience with unions, but I think one of the points several others have stated is that you should understand MDs are in a union, so the argument that representation by a union=nonprofessional is faulty. To be fair though, be thankful that you don't have any need for union representation in your current situation, but I'd advise you to never say never. Read some of the threads where nurses have been nothing short of screwed by hospital admin and understand that with union representation, that probably doesn't happen.