For a while now I've been reading about the so called nursing shortage and today I read a thread that discusses this issue and the general opinion that the problem is the poor working environment, pay etc. So I can't help but wonder why we aren't organized. Surely if ALL of us were unionized we'd be in a better position to negotiate. I live in Denmark where 97% of all nurses are union members. Things are not perfect here, but better than the US I think.
So, what do all of you think? Why aren't we more organized? Seems like I've read somewhere that ca. 30% of american nurses are unionized?
The trouble with unions are that they are geared to not recognize good nurses but that all nurses get lumped together wage wise.
Nursing unions are a dictatorship of medicrity
I previously worked at a nonunion hospital that claimed to give 'incentive' raises based on an evaluation. Trouble was everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY got some ridiculous markdowns every year on their evals. I had never ever heard of ANYONE getting a raise for performance. Hospitals that promise to reward "good" nurses are handing out a bunch of crap. Evaluations are ALWAYS subjective and have always been misused to keep wages low.
I previously worked at a nonunion hospital that claimed to give 'incentive' raises based on an evaluation. Trouble was everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY got some ridiculous markdowns every year on their evals. I had never ever heard of ANYONE getting a raise for performance. Hospitals that promise to reward "good" nurses are handing out a bunch of crap. Evaluations are ALWAYS subjective and have always been misused to keep wages low.
So evaluations are worthless, and good or bad nurses are paid the same? That's a crock. And you're so blinded by your union that you ignore the real world. Our hospital doles out plenty of raises and incentive pay for their nurses. They would rather pay it to their own than have to hire travelers who are halfway through their 13 wk contract before they're even oriented to the paperwork.
There is no MAJOR shortage where I work (Kansas City, MO). I would not work in a facility that had a union. How can we be viewed as PROFESSIONALS when we organize in unions that were originally designed to get better working conditions for 'blue-collar' workers at the turn of the century?
r.
Be a NURSING PROFESSIONAL -or- Be a worker in a blue-collar union job.
I read this comment often in these debates about union vs nonunion, but I just wonder if we are viewed as professionals anyways? I can only go by my experiences and what I've read and seen in the media, but I don't believe nurses are viewed as professionals by many, including hospital admin, MDs politicians, etc. I'd love to say who cares what they think, but unfortunately they are the ones who have the greatest impact on nursing as a career.
Personally I still don't know whether I'm for or against unions. Like everything else in life, they have their pros and cons. I do know, however, that with a strong union, such as the one correctional officers in CA are a part of, they pretty much run things in the workplace.
The hospital I work at now had the CNA visit about 2 yrs ago. As I understand it, it appeared as though the staff would vote in favor of it, then just hours before the vote, the union pulled out. So while I am greatly appreciative of the CNA's achievements, I can't help but wonder what happened here.
Specializes in Geriatrics, Pediatrics, Home Health.
There is no MAJOR shortage where I work (Kansas City, MO). Only some hospitals - mainly those belonging to HCA have difficulty staffing their units.
I would not work in a facility that had a union. How can we be viewed as PROFESSIONALS when we organize in unions that were originally designed to get better working conditions for 'blue-collar' workers at the turn of the century?
Yes, stand up for your rights.
Yes, raise your voice to be heard.
Yes, show your view/choice by not working any longer at that "understaffed" hospital in town.
But, no...there is no reason to behave unprofessionally and go on STRIKE. There is no reason to behave unprofessionally and make snide comments to those that must keep working to feed their families during a strike.
IMO, it's one or the other.
Be a NURSING PROFESSIONAL -or- Be a worker in a blue-collar union job.
Personally, I like to think of myself as a member of the Nursing Profession.
There is no MAJOR shortage where I work (Kansas City, MO). Only some hospitals - mainly those belonging to HCA have difficulty staffing their units.
I would not work in a facility that had a union. How can we be viewed as PROFESSIONALS when we organize in unions that were originally designed to get better working conditions for 'blue-collar' workers at the turn of the century?
Oh so the AMA isn't a UNION?? Hummm I think someone forgot to tell the DOCTORS that!! :rotfl:
***But, no...there is no reason to behave unprofessionally and go on STRIKE. There is no reason to behave unprofessionally and make snide comments to those that must keep working to feed their families during a strike.****
ISTM that alot of people DO NOT understand that the people who form the union are the UNION!! If the PEOPLE in the union decide not to go on strike then there will be NO strike!! I do not understand where people get the idea that a union is some kind of "thing" that sits in the dark corner and waits for someone to screw up. Unions are only as strong as the people in them.
****IMO, it's one or the other.
Be a NURSING PROFESSIONAL -or- Be a worker in a blue-collar union job.****
This is the kind of thing, I don't understand. People in "BLUE COLLAR" jobs are PROFESSIONALS. Ever heard of Pipefitters, Plumbers, Boilermakers or Ironworkers, etc.? Each one is considered a PROFESSIONAL.
All a union does is give each person a VOICE. When union meetings are held, each person can state what is happening in their area. The people decide if they want to strike or if they would rather bargain for better patient ratios, and better care of the nurses, and understaff.
People on this list have a misconception of what unions really are. We consider ourselves educatated and we are, but when it comes to unions, we think they are for "untrained laborers". WRONG!! If DOCTORS are unionized, maybe they know something that nurses don't.
I did not mean to offend anyone, but I am SO TIRED of people thinking that a union is a dark entity that is run by a "mob" somewhere in a dark closet as far away from the union members as possible. That the union's mission it to take your money and allow bad/dangerous employees to stay on the job. Neither of those things are true.
I know, because my husband was cheif union steward in a production bakery. Several bad/dangerous employees were fired on the spot for things they did. A Manager was also fired for stealing!!
I'll get off my soap-box now and put on my flame retardant coat. :chuckle
How can we be viewed as PROFESSIONALS when we organize in unions that were originally designed to get better working conditions for 'blue-collar' workers at the turn of the century?
Oh so the AMA isn't a UNION?? Hummm I think someone forgot to tell the DOCTORS that!! :rotfl:
****IMO, it's one or the other.
Be a NURSING PROFESSIONAL -or- Be a worker in a blue-collar union job.****
This is the kind of thing, I don't understand. People in "BLUE COLLAR" jobs are PROFESSIONALS. Ever heard of Pipefitters, Plumbers, Boilermakers or Ironworkers, etc.? Each one is considered a PROFESSIONAL.
I guess professional athletes should consider themselves "blue collar workers" because they all have players unions.
not to mention that mds have been "on strike" in recent years. it's because mds are very well organized that makes them an effective voice for their own purposes; and yet no one disputes that mds are 'professionals'. nurses would do better for themselves by following their example. worrying about how 'professional' nurses do or don't appear is absurd imo. if i were to be worried about appearances; i'd be more concerned about how much nurses appear to be doormats and how much they defeat their own purposes. (that is, if they even know what their purposes are!)
unfortunately, we have a for-profit healthcare system here in the us; it's all about money and greed. (can you tell where i formerly worked?) and the reality is that those who make no demands for decent pay and working conditions will get neither. there is nothing wrong with expecting to be decently compensated and not abused on the job. if it takes a union to accomplish that....i don't care what it takes.
i really loathe this overly self-important and elitist 'nurses are professionals' opinion...... it just too much resembles a distasteful holier-than-thou attitude. in reality, the work of nursing includes much that can only be considered blue-collar. in fact, i'd venture to say that a lot of blue-collar workers wouldn't touch the 'dirty work' required in nursing.
The days of a group of people getting together to protect the rights of the individual are long gone. And as far as making any waves against big business in this country, don't use your real name. Good Luck.
As long as there is no incentive for large companies to spend money to reduce pt ratios and pay nurses more, to adequately staff so that there is not a need for mandatory overtime then they will not. Supply and demand forces in America punish companies that act responsibly and ethically treat their employees. Unions counteract this force by giving an economic reason to behave ethically. Even preachers are paid. I am well aware of the wages that I can expect when I graduate and will attempt to find a union to join although this will be difficult if not impossible in Texas. It is one more reason to consider moving to California. I work hard wherever I am and expect reasonable (heck I would like to be paid obscenely well) compensation for my efforts. You generally only get what you ask for and unions act as a unified way to ask for more weather it is better conditions for the nurse or the patient.
I really loathe this overly self-important and elitist 'nurses are PROFESSIONALS' opinion...... It just too much resembles a distasteful holier-than-thou attitude. In reality, the work of nursing includes much that can ONLY be considered blue-collar. In fact, I'd venture to say that a lot of blue-collar workers wouldn't touch the 'dirty work' required in nursing.
I don't agree ....and thank you for not attacking me.
In one arguement, nurses say that we are not perceived by society as being as valuable as we truely are....in your arguement, you are saying that I value my contribution to society TOO MUCH. Oh Please!
If our job is not that important, then why the discussion about unionization anyway?
If our job is not that important, then why the discussion about low pay for RNs in another thread?
My step-father is a retired Ford auto worker - did the job for 35+ years. I don't feel better than him...I feel that I should be viewed as a professional person in a professional community separate from workers in the auto industry or any other unionized industry.
My step-father didn't go to college and no one died if he screwed up. He also wouldn't be risking someone's life by going on strike. There are huge differences between what we do as RN's and what many do on the line at Ford or GM for example. If we don't distinguish ourselves and our differences apart from these other UNIONIZED jobs (electrician, carpenter, etc..), then how can we advance as a profession?
I'm very anti-union in nursing. The only experience/exposure that I've had to nursing unions was very negative. Back in nursing school we had a visit from reps from a local nursing union. Needless to say they were the most unprofessional bunch of nurses I've seen so far. They were to have given a presentation on unions and what their purpose was. Instead, it was a general gripe session over the poor quality of the facility where they worked and the poor treatment of nurses in that facility. The presentation was in very poor taste to say the least.
So, maybe you can understand why I have such a negative view of unions and professionalism in nursing. If those union reps had carried themselves more professionaly to begin with I may be more open to it. However, I DON'T want reps like that to make decisions on my behalf, no thank you. I'll make my own decisions and fight my own battles.
wjf00
357 Posts
I previously worked at a nonunion hospital that claimed to give 'incentive' raises based on an evaluation. Trouble was everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY got some ridiculous markdowns every year on their evals. I had never ever heard of ANYONE getting a raise for performance. Hospitals that promise to reward "good" nurses are handing out a bunch of crap. Evaluations are ALWAYS subjective and have always been misused to keep wages low.