For a while now I've been reading about the so called nursing shortage and today I read a thread that discusses this issue and the general opinion that the problem is the poor working environment, pay etc. So I can't help but wonder why we aren't organized. Surely if ALL of us were unionized we'd be in a better position to negotiate. I live in Denmark where 97% of all nurses are union members. Things are not perfect here, but better than the US I think.
So, what do all of you think? Why aren't we more organized? Seems like I've read somewhere that ca. 30% of american nurses are unionized?
I agree 100%. At a major package delivery service in my town, the drivers make $25/hr to deliver packages. I make less than $18/hr working in the ER where we save lives. Their health insurance is half the cost of mine. They are union, we are not. I did not get into nursing to be rich but I am not a martyr either.
Jetman
So you weren't aware of incomes in the nursing profession before you got in? That's not real smart planning.
And let's get real - there are large areas of the country where there are no nursing unions, and probably never will be. You will rarely if ever see unions in rural areas. You will rarely see them outside of larger, industrialized cities (New York, Chicago, LA, Boston, St. Louis, etc.) I know plenty of nurses making $60k and more in my area. No unions in sight except for big corporations and city government. They don't need or want unions - the only ones who do are transplants from the northeast and other places that have them. Everyone in healthcare grumbles about compensation, but hey, you can always get one of those highly rewarding, intellectually stimulating delivery jobs. Or come drive a bus in Atlanta - $80k (less union dues).
And just curious - I really don't know - how much do your union dues eat away at your income?
I agree to a lot of what you say. However....the hospitals don't despise unions for the loss of total control over the nurses' lives but over the loss of control of what happens inside their walls. Nurses need to face a few hard facts also. If you're looking for money as a motivator, it never was and never will be according to all research. But we, as nurses, need to be very clear about what we want and be able to intelligently and rationally articulate our position. We, also, need to make the hard choices if a hospital is not able to meet our needs or demands. We can stay at the facility and complain we can constructively try to reach a compromise beneficial to both, or we can leave. It's what the "big boys" do in the corporate world. Or, there is another choice if we can't find satisfaction. We can pursue another career. I'm not going to tell you anything is "for the sake of the poor patients." But, if not for the poor patients, why are we here?
We are here for the patients. We chose/choose our profession to help the patients. But do we not have a right to be fairly compensated? To be able to provide for and care for our own families? I am simply saying that we do not need to live under the false assumption that we are putting patients at risk when all we want is a fair wage and benefits. None of us assumes we will ever get rich as a nurse but do we not deserve to be fairly compensated for our efforts?
But do we not have a right to be fairly compensated? To be able to provide for and care for our own families?
None of us assumes we will ever get rich as a nurse but do we not deserve to be fairly compensated for our efforts?
Sure you do. My point is that everyone knows (or should) going in what nursing compensation is like. Why would anyone choose a profession without knowing whether or not they can support themselves (and their family)? I just don't see unions as a means to that end - IMHO. I know many disagree.
I don't think I've seen this mentioned in this thread so far - why is no one pointing the finger at managed care for a lot of the problems in health care? Managed care does two things - cut payments to providers, and make money for themselves. To pretend otherwise is foolish. Managed care has nothing to do with providing high quality care. It's all about making money any way they can. They cut payments to hospitals (and other providers) who respond in the only way they can - cutting overhead, which often means either cutting salaries and wages or cutting the number of personnel. The only alternatives many hospitals have would be to close - and many have in the last few years. Hospitals have to make enough money to cover their costs. When they can't, unless they're government subsidized, they simply can't continue to exist.
You said you disagree with me but I completely agree with your statement. Where does it say that it is not caring and compassionate if a nurse stands up to the hospitals for a fair wage? What I said was if you are a nurse that will cross a picket line to work at a striking hospital admit you do it for the money and not the patients.
Originally Posted by NurseGuy_in_06
It is called not caring about anyone else but yourself. By your statement you are agreeing that it is about money, not the patients.
Sorry. I guess that was how I interpreted your post that I placed in italics. It didn't say anything about a strike in it, so I assumed it was a blanket statement, meaning that if money is indeed a strong factor for why a person works as a Nurse, that they are selfish and do not care about their patients.
We are here for the patients. We chose/choose our profession to help the patients. But do we not have a right to be fairly compensated? To be able to provide for and care for our own families? I am simply saying that we do not need to live under the false assumption that we are putting patients at risk when all we want is a fair wage and benefits. None of us assumes we will ever get rich as a nurse but do we not deserve to be fairly compensated for our efforts?
What is "fair"? Who decides? A union? Do you think they really have your best interest as their primary focus? Then, why do they push so hard for payroll deduction of union dues? Why are their executives paid such exorbitant salaries? And why did organized crime find them so lucrative? These are a lot of questions they skirt when asked? Much like a politician who is cornered. I am neither pro or anti union. I am pro Nursing! And finally do we expect non-profit county or charitable hospitals to be able to compete with the big for-profit entities? Someone, please help me with these issues.
What is "fair"? Who decides? A union? Do you think they really have your best interest as their primary focus? Then, why do they push so hard for payroll deduction of union dues? Why are their executives paid such exorbitant salaries? And why did organized crime find them so lucrative? These are a lot of questions they skirt when asked? Much like a politician who is cornered. I am neither pro or anti union. I am pro Nursing! And finally do we expect non-profit county or charitable hospitals to be able to compete with the big for-profit entities? Someone, please help me with these issues.
You have raised a lot of good questions. But please answer your own question in your own opinion. WHO decides what is fair and what is fair compensation?
You have raised a lot of good questions. But please answer your own question in your own opinion. WHO decides what is fair and what is fair compensation?
I wish I knew. Is it the nurse with a husband/wife and four children? Is it the single mom/dad? Is it the hospital who continually operates in the red? I have been in nursing for quite a while and did not see salaries significantly rise until men entered the profession in larger numbers. Not to reveal my age :rotfl: but I started many moons ago for $3.84/hr. I definitely think it should be a colaborative effort between hospital administration and nursing. With so many more nursing staffs become empowered because of the push for Magnet Hospital status, I envision a time in the near future for a Compensation/Benefit Committee to be a voice for nursing. I do think that if nursing saw and understood the revenue issues faced by each hospital and for administration to come down from the Ivory Tower and face the issues of nurses then we could begin a productive dialogue. I also think that it certainly isn't just salary but a combination of benefits to include adequate health insurance, long and short term disability, education reimbursements, promotion opportunities, retirement plans, and other issues specific to each facility. I notice some areas much more vocal and reactionary than others and, maybe, this frightens some institutions that do have employees interests at the forefront. The value of nursing in any institution is very hard to determine particularly when our services are lumped in with the "room charge." So unbundling our profession and services needs to be paramount in any negotiation. Sorry for being long-winded but I guess I am trying to think out loud to answer my own questions.
So you weren't aware of incomes in the nursing profession before you got in? That's not real smart planning.
And let's get real - there are large areas of the country where there are no nursing unions, and probably never will be. You will rarely if ever see unions in rural areas. You will rarely see them outside of larger, industrialized cities (New York, Chicago, LA, Boston, St. Louis, etc.) I know plenty of nurses making $60k and more in my area. No unions in sight except for big corporations and city government. They don't need or want unions - the only ones who do are transplants from the northeast and other places that have them. Everyone in healthcare grumbles about compensation, but hey, you can always get one of those highly rewarding, intellectually stimulating delivery jobs. Or come drive a bus in Atlanta - $80k (less union dues).
And just curious - I really don't know - how much do your union dues eat away at your income?
I was completely aware of the wages before I got into nursing, thank you very much. My point was that alot can be accomplished when a group comes together and works together for a common cause. Unfortunately, during my short time as a nurse (3yrs) what I have seen is conflict and animosity between nurses, your statement in point. As far as the cost, https://allnurses.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-8686.html
But, if not for the poor patients, why are we here?
That one's easy......a lot of us became nurses because we were looking for job security with supposed good pay and benefits. Unfortunately, most of us didn't realize what hell we were getting ourselves into. If anyone had been honest with me when I was inquiring about a career as a nurse; I think I would've done something else (at least most of the time I WISH I had done something else!)
And just curious - I really don't know - how much do your union dues eat away at your income?
Well I have paid a whopping $864 this year in dues. Income wise I will make just under $100K, with not much OT. So the dues are well worth it. But it goes beyond money. The NICU I work in has ratios of 1:1 for vented pt.'s and 1:2 or 1:3 for others. Pt outcomes on our unit are amoung the best in the nation because of the ratios enforced by the CNA union. Join a union it's good for you and good for your patients.
jwk
1,102 Posts
And let's get real - there are large areas of the country where there are no nursing unions, and probably never will be. You will rarely if ever see unions in rural areas. You will rarely see them outside of larger, industrialized cities (New York, Chicago, LA, Boston, St. Louis, etc.) I know plenty of nurses making $60k and more in my area. No unions in sight except for big corporations and city government. They don't need or want unions - the only ones who do are transplants from the northeast and other places that have them. Everyone in healthcare grumbles about compensation, but hey, you can always get one of those highly rewarding, intellectually stimulating delivery jobs. Or come drive a bus in Atlanta - $80k (less union dues).
And just curious - I really don't know - how much do your union dues eat away at your income?