Why are Nurses so mean to each other?

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Aug 22, 2012

I don't want to turn this into an attack thread because that would defeat the purpose of the thread. We are ALL sugar AND spice sometimes.

Cold Stethoscope · Aug 22, 2012

If someone is that stressed out by their job then they need to rethink their career choice. If no other reason than for their own health and well being. Not everyone can handle stress.

Gee, I don't know HM. Maybe people who can handle stress really well make great air traffic controllers, but poor nurses. Got any statistics?

I'm being facetious, but it sounds like you're justifying a martyr culture. Is it some law of physics that things have to be the way they are?

Why do you think a very small percentage of people that join the military stay to retirement? It is a very stressful job.

I don't think the stress level is the only think that keeps a lot of people from spending a career in the military, and not that military jobs have you in combat, but nursing and the military are very different.

Yes, nursing and the military are very different.

Oh, right then. Carry on.

A lot of people join the military to (try to) live out their macho fantasies. Others feel they have no economic alternative. For some, like my father, it was a ticket for someone with little money to get away from his overbearing family.

On the other hand, though some nurses are in it for the money, prestige, etc., most are there simply because they want to help people with medical maladies to recover their health. That should be the mission of hospitals in general. Stressing out the staff adds no value. In fact, it's demonstrably destructive. So, is all the stress necessary?

Or is it just the fault of nurses, pampered by their attentive and compassionate management, simply whining about nothing?

I fail to see why it would be considered acceptable by anyone for a nurse to be mean to another nurse. Dang, you are all in the same boat.

Very good.

This is a big difference I see in a male dominated field compared to a female. In my previous jobs, male dominated, if we were treated like crap we banded together and raised Hell with management not each other. Often with women it seems they take their frustrations out on each other.

Do that now as a nurse, and given the labor market in most places now, your management will invite you to leave, if you don't have a union; they have a huge stack of resumes of people who would jump at the opportunity to have your job.

I've worked in a male-dominated field as well, pretty much as stereotypically male as you can get short of dock work. What kept us there, aside from the nerdy attraction to a particular technology, was the potential great financial upside. If we were so fatigues that we'd start making dumb errors, it was no big deal. We'd replace the blown part, or recompile the software.

No lives were in danger. No one risked life-long disability.

They don't need management to keep them down, they do a good enough job doing it for them. How professional can they seem to management when they act like a bunch of squabbling 5th graders?

>.>

Is that your real-world experience?

Stephalump · Aug 22, 2012

I've posted mean posts? I've often replied in kind, but don't think I have posted anything mean out of the blue. Could you give an example or two?

Well after my extensive research (aka a glass of wine and too much time on AN), I saw absolutely nothing that seems "mean."

However, I'm no longer emotionally involved in any of the topics that were oh-so-important at the time, so I'm probably less likely to read all kinds of exciting hidden meanings and agendas into your words.

The wild world of the Internet.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Aug 22, 2012

After years on AN, I've formed the opinion that a lot of what is labelled "mean" here is simply something that the OP doesn't like, disagrees with or isn't prepared to confront. For example, any poster who decries her loss of five jobs in two years as being because "mean people were out to get me" is probably unwilling to confront the idea that instead it may be something she's doing wrong. A lot of what people label "mean" that occurs in the real world may be nothing more than someone who is currently holding her first real job and realizes that not everyone thinks she is as wonderful and special as her parents did, and that her boss may indeed expect more from her than she anticipated. A lot of what passes for rude behavior in the workplace is often just a brand new employee unused to coping with the different cultures and personalities she encounters in the workplace, or so self-involved that she thinks everything revolves around here. ("My preceptor hates me! She didn't smile at me when I came into the room!" doesn't account for the idea that the preceptor doesn't have her contacts in yet and didn't SEE her, or that the preceptor is preoccupied with another matter or that the preceptor has a horrible toothache and is saving her painful smiles for the patients.)

Also, a lot of people, even people who should know better, continue to believe that nurses are angels filled with compassion and love for their fellow man and are totally shocked when they encounter instead real people who sometimes get grumpy after three 12-hour shifts on their feet dealing with unreasonable managers, patients and visitors.

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Aug 22, 2012

This is a good example.
The comment couldn't be left alone.
Snark will out.

Now that is just plain mean. But if the snark pants fit, I will wear them.

And now to the OP of that comment, my apologies for being offensive.

Maevish, ASN, RN · Aug 22, 2012

There are about 75 nurses that work in my ICU and of all of them there's only one person who I'd rather die than ask a question of, but I do it if I need to. That's pretty good I think. That being said I'm not taking into account people who I trust to not gossip and be catty in that way (there are maybe 4 people on my night shift that I trust to not go blabbing if I need to vent a little). It's so hard when there are people who know so much and could be so helpful, but instead choose to belittle and talk down to you.

There are times I know the answer to a question, but I'm just having one of those nights and am just having the biggest brain fart ever and some people just act like that never happens.

I have never had to doubt the teamwork on my unit, but as for "eating our young", I think it's easier for some of us newer people to remember when we have students, etc because we're not as far removed from not knowing everything. My preceptors here were amazing and didn't make me feel stupid when I didn't know something and that's something I always hope to pass on. I love it when people ask me questions because it solidifies my own skills or, "worst case scenario" we both learn something new! :-)

There's never a reason to be rude or mean to anyone, new or experienced, because the good of the patients should be the common goal and being mean to someone en route doesn't do anyone any good.

redhead_NURSE98!, ADN, BSN · Aug 22, 2012

Uhm, ya, there's that.......
(saracasm button off now, REALLY......)

That was MEAN!!!! :cry:

rubato, ASN, RN · Aug 23, 2012

Well, I guess I'm mean. I do not sugar coat things. If someone asks for my opinion, guess what, I'm going to give my honest opinion, not what the OP wants to hear. Tough! It's the real world. This is not the world where you get a medal for participating. This is the world where you need to act like a grown up, be held accountable for your actions, and toughen up a little.

Just my opinion.

Cold Stethoscope · Aug 24, 2012

Well, I guess I'm mean. I do not sugar coat things. If someone asks for my opinion, guess what, I'm going to give my honest opinion, not what the OP wants to hear. Tough! It's the real world. This is not the world where you get a medal for participating. This is the world where you need to act like a grown up, be held accountable for your actions, and toughen up a little.
Just my opinion.

I hear you. Just know that you risk being dinged with a "posting to be divisive only" warning if someone really doesn't like what you're saying. Too many of those and you are disappeared from the site.

HM-8404, BSN, RN · Aug 24, 2012

Well after my extensive research (aka a glass of wine and too much time on AN), I saw absolutely nothing that seems "mean."
However, I'm no longer emotionally involved in any of the topics that were oh-so-important at the time, so I'm probably less likely to read all kinds of exciting hidden meanings and agendas into your words.
The wild world of the Internet.

Thank you. I know I am old and Alzheimer's is probably right around the corner, but I didn't think I had posted anything that could realistically be considered "mean."

I guess some people make accusations without any proof. Makes me wonder if Harry Reid is a member of Allnurses.

tothepointeLVN, LVN · Aug 24, 2012

Thank you. I know I am old and Alzheimer's is probably right around the corner, but I didn't think I had posted anything that could realistically be considered "mean."
I guess some people make accusations without any proof. Makes me wonder if Harry Reid is a member of Allnurses.

I still stand by what I said and remember it's my definition of mean. Most people aren't aware that what they are saying is mean otherwise they wouldn't say. Few people are purposefully mean. Though maybe mean isn't the word. Arrogant and purposefully offensive. I decided against posting examples because that IS purposefully devise. I could PM you but I doubt you'd be receptive.

Being compared to a senator isn't such a bad thing especially since he's the senate majority leader and I'm a democrat. Win Win. (Though some might call that mean. Republicans for example)

Christy1019, ASN, RN · Aug 24, 2012

If someone is that stressed out by their job then they need to rethink their career choice. If no other reason than for their own health and well being. Not everyone can handle stress. Why do you think a very small percentage of people that join the military stay to retirement? It is a very stressful job. Yes, nursing and the military are very different. At least in nursing you get to choose where you want to work, you get to choose where you want to live, unless you choose travel you are home everyday, if you don't like your boss you can quit. The US military is the closest thing to legalized slavery in the US. They tell you what you are going to do as a job, where you will live, when you can go home, and if you don't like it, tough, you will be leaving in a couple of years anyway.

If someone is stressed out about their job, why do they necessarily have to rethink their entire career? Nursing is luckily such a broad field that it offers limitless options for specialization. If a person is too stressed in a high paced environment like ER for example, they might find that a job as a case worker or in a medical office to be a better fit.

As for the military being the closest thing to legalized slavery?? Seriously..? I don't want to be one of these so-called "mean nurses" and say how absurd that statement is lol, but what the heck... REALLY?!? Going into the military is a choice & provides compensation, slavery is not chosen or rewarded. Military represents honor, slavery is degrading & inhumane. In the military you absolutely have the choice as to what job you will do, first with which branch of service you want, what specialty training/education (mechanic, flight, medical), and whether you choose to advance your career to higher ranking positions, slavery offers no choices.

I apologize if it seems I'm veering off subject w/my post, just couldn't go without responding to that poor choice for comparison, even though I'm usually the last person to be defending most military practices lol.

In response to the original topic, I too am tired of all the posts about "old vs young nurses, icu vs ER, fired for no reason b/c I made 20 med errors, pretty or fat nurses are mean" etc. But this problem isnt specific to nursing, its wherever you work, and first starts in school with cliques. Do I think that our society has changed significantly in the last 20yrs or so? Of course! Our culture has become very ego-centric, self serving, hypersensitive to criticism, and less caring of others, hence patient care now takes less priority and customer service is #1. Years ago, people had manners, were considerate, and polite. Nowadays it isn't unheard of for a patient to scream, cuss, and insult a nurse because they can't get food 20min after coming to the ER, or when the doctor doesn't order dilaudid for their toothache.

At 27 I have had the misfortune of having to grow up in a society with this modern way of thinking, but was thankfully brought up with a sense of respect, consideration of others, manners, and integrity. Because of that I will always respect and appreciate the information and opinions of more experienced nurses whether they are old, young, fat, thin, pretty, or ugly. And when they offer their criticism of my practice (even with my 4yrs experience), I will take consideration and know that they just might know better than I do, and not start whining that they're picking on me or being mean.

Unfortunately my values & morals are not shared by the majority, thus we are going to continue this debate for years to come. Some older nurses MIGHT be unfriendly towards younger nurses, maybe because they are frustrated at the frequent lack of accountability and defensive attitudes. Maybe the ugly nurses DO get annoyed with prettier ones... Maybe b/c male physicians are less respectful when speaking to her than the prettier nurses. Those are completely fictional examples of the perceptions that fuel this debate, & were not meant to fuel the fire but make us take pause, and to try understanding the feeling behind another's behavior toward ourselves before we assume they are just bullies out to get us.