WHY are nurses so catty??

[SnowymtnRN]

I swear sometimes i don't know WHY i'm in this profession. My mom works at a job as a RN and was limping one day. Her knee bothers her from time to time, etc...she's overweight (and working on it) but it gives her trouble at times. Instead of someone ASKING her what was wrong, one of the nurses ran to the manager and told her that my mom couldn't "keep up" and didn't seem to be quick enough for the job cuz she seemed disabled. This is a NEW job for my mom, so she's still on orientation technically. The manager called her in and made her take off today to go to Occ health and have it tested so she could be cleared to work. WTF?? She told her "we'll figure out what to do pending what the doc says." so she didn't work today and lost that time worked. Of course she went to occ health, the Doc tested her etc...and cleared her no problem. She told him she was excercising, walking and taking meds for it. Forgot to wrap it that day, but was not having any trouble SINCE that day. I have 2 problems with this. 1 is that NOBODY asked her what was up with her knee that day. NOBODY. 2 is that the manager just jumped on it because of what this other nurse SAID. WHY do nurses feel like they have to police each other's performance? UGH i'm just disgusted.

[lisabeth]

It sounds like a big problem. I am not a nurse yet, but I guess I have that to look forward to. I thought leaving a law firm would get me away from that kind. The attorneys arent that way, but legal assistants were horrible. I guess it is a big problem everywhere.

[TreeHawk]

I think it's an issue of personal power, or lack thereof. I'm not a nurse yet, so I can't speak for nurses. But I have worked 2 psych hopsitals, and I think the culture determines how people act. One hospital was so chock full of nastiness, that as a sensitive person I thought my head would explode. Another hospital was quite pleasant. People who walk with personal power have no need to be petty, and when confronted with petty people, they see their weakness immediately shut it down, and don't take it personally. Usually people who are catty are really cowards trying to puff their chests to mimic power. I've been working in business for a couple years to get a break from social work. I work in a small office, and there are catty women and my boss is the first catty man I've ever met. This job has really prepared me for dealing with all sorts of personalities. I used to burst into tears when I was unjustly blamed for something here. Now I just don't react. A non-reaction is the best reaction. Catty people can't get anything out of you if you don't feed into their games. I mostly feel bad that they are so lonely and in need of attention that they hurt others to get some reaction to fill that need. I'd like to add also that IMHO it is surely a challenge to not get annoyed and upset by these goobers. I've been around them my whole life and I'm still learning how to deal.

[Kelly_the_Great]

What I see more often is a third sort, a sort of righteous indignation when someone's practice isn't what someone else thinks it ought to be. Sometimes the criticism may be warranted, but other times there are simply two ways of doing things (or more) either of which is effective, but one of which isn't how someone was taught to do it. I think this may be fairly typical of nursing, where most of us truly believe that what we are doing is important, and that doing it right matters. This is not unique to nursing--I've known of carpenters coming to blows over similar conflicts--but I think it is the source of a great deal of friction in the profession. I think it may also be the hardest to avoid. At least, I think I'm fairly scrupulous about avoiding the first two, but mellow as I am, I have to be vigilant to avoid wandering into that third pitfall.

Interesting concept, Mike. Really makes a lot of sense with technology and our knowledge base expanding ever-rapidly, it really, really makes a lot of sense and I had never thought about this at all. I mean sure, I've known older nurses who thought they were the only one's who knew how to "skin the cat" the right way. And I've also known younger nurses who acted like the process of nursing itself, just hatched with their batch, ya know? But if you think about it, of course there would be these difference when you take into consideration differences in instruction, experience, etc.

...where I'm headed with it is that the nursing profession needs us to learn to have some confidence in each other, and a willingness to believe that others are just as earnest about their work as I am about mine, and even when mistakes are made, they usually aren't made out of negligence, but simply because we're all human, and even when we are doing our best, even the best of us have limitations.

Edit: "they's been given?" Sheesh--maybe I'm really not perfect. And I thought I was just being humbvle.

"You's" soundin' okay to me! :)

[SFlorida]

i think i found the perfect reason why nurses are so catty while reading post at another site. keep in mind that it is not my opinion, eventhought it is indeed a very intersting point that should even be studied by psychologist or sociologist....so here it goes....

i am currently a nurse working in a pediatric hospital. i have felt for a while all the frustration that i have seen displayed on various responses and original postings. all talk of leaving the profession, feeling sorry for those who enter. how will things change? i really don't know the answer to this - and honestly want to try to find out - not just complain. [color=#3366ff]is it because it is a "woman's profession" that it has this stigma of backbiting, and the "woe is me" attitude? why do we allow this? why do men do better in "our" profession than we do? i believe that men are not brought up to believe that they have to put up w/**** and that they can't change it. women do think this way. if a guy doesn't like something - he is vocal w/out being petty - and he is aggressive for the change not whiny. i think it is time to stand up and try to be the voice of change. it won't happen overnight but if we allow it to continue then the professional image will never change, the attitude will never change and we will continue to be disappointed in our choice of profession and the path it follows. do we really want to leave this legacy to the next generation of nurses or do we want to be the advocates and make this the profession we imagined when we were in nursing school?

[RN4NICU, LPN, LVN]

i think i found the perfect reason why nurses are so catty while reading post at another site. keep in mind that it is not my opinion, eventhought it is indeed a very intersting point that should even be studied by psychologist or sociologist....so here it goes....

i am currently a nurse working in a pediatric hospital. i have felt for a while all the frustration that i have seen displayed on various responses and original postings. all talk of leaving the profession, feeling sorry for those who enter. how will things change? i really don't know the answer to this - and honestly want to try to find out - not just complain. [color=#3366ff]is it because it is a "woman's profession" that it has this stigma of backbiting, and the "woe is me" attitude? why do we allow this? why do men do better in "our" profession than we do? i believe that men are not brought up to believe that they have to put up w/**** and that they can't change it. women do think this way. if a guy doesn't like something - he is vocal w/out being petty - and he is aggressive for the change not whiny. i think it is time to stand up and try to be the voice of change. it won't happen overnight but if we allow it to continue then the professional image will never change, the attitude will never change and we will continue to be disappointed in our choice of profession and the path it follows. do we really want to leave this legacy to the next generation of nurses or do we want to be the advocates and make this the profession we imagined when we were in nursing school?

i don't think sweeping generalizations about women and/or nurses are going to get us anywhere. it isn't a woman thing, it is a personality thing. it is also a workplace culture thing. some units seem to encourage backbiting and backstabbing. in others, the staff works together. it has more to do with the mix of personalities than it does with gender.

[PANurseRN1]

See the thread where some nurses are labeled as "pretentious" just because of how they say "centimeter."

Major meow!

[Bala Shark]

I am a male nursing student and I usually do work with a lot of women..In the past, some women in class set me up to fail, wrote bad comments about me to the instructor, got me into trouble, etc..I am just surprised that I am still here and graduating with all the things I went through with my female classmates..

BUT I do have some kind female classmates who are into helping each other and are not competitive but sometimes the bad apples will kind of blind me in what I see good in people..

[Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN]

Female nurses are catty because they are women, and frankly, many women are catty. Male nurses expect anyone who takes a job to be physically able to perform. It's not personal. In fact, the NM is doing her job by sending the newly hired RN to get eval'd. If the new RN can't physically do the job, now is the time to find out. Again, it's not personal, it's business.

Not to get into stereotypes, but this is only an issue because most nurses are women. Women look at this problem and see an injustice to the individual. Men look at it and see an injustice to the team.

Meow.

Pete Fitzpatrick

RN, CCRN, CFRN, EMT-P

I've seen just as many catty male nurses on the job-

I've worked with male nurses who relish gossip, back-stab, critisize what other nurses are wearing, how their hair is done, their weight, etc.

Here's an example of male cattiness of which I was the recipient:

Years ago, I was getting ready to leave the unit for the day and realized I still had a PCA pump key in my pocket. I was going to go put it back in the Pyxis, when a male nurse co-worker offered to put it back for me, so I thanked him & handed it to him. He then went right to the manager and told her that I would have left the unit with the key, if he hadn't so valiantly stopped me.

The manager called me into her office over this.

Cattiness is not an exclusively female trait.

(deep male voice) MEOW!

[Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN]

BTW, loved your post, nursemike.

[mysticalwaters1]

I've seen just as many catty male nurses on the job-

I've worked with male nurses who relish gossip, back-stab, critisize what other nurses are wearing, how their hair is done, their weight, etc.

Here's an example of male cattiness of which I was the recipient:

Years ago, I was getting ready to leave the unit for the day and realized I still had a PCA pump key in my pocket. I was going to go put it back in the Pyxis, when a male nurse co-worker offered to put it back for me, so I thanked him & handed it to him. He then went right to the manager and told her that I would have left the unit with the key, if he hadn't so valiantly stopped me.

The manager called me into her office over this.

Cattiness is not an exclusively female trait.

(deep male voice) MEOW!

WOW! See THAT is exactly what I wasn't prepared with in nursing school! I was SHOCKED at the mix of personalities, gossip and back stabbing that goes on. I think it happens in all professions. It's just in nursing we are already stressed with our duties then compound it with others doing the same.

I just had a horrible shift. Everytime I went to see my patients something was wrong. I also had a nursing intern and trying to show her how to do things and be patient as she hung abx which she does not do hardly b/c she's totally brand new. I get report and the previous shift nurse leaves me an admission (which she has done consistently) pt with only a small part of the hx done on the computer which the charge nurse completed. The pt was there for 3.5 hours and that's all that was done. No IV, no abx started, no labs. All she got was lunch. Not even a small not written on the pt. See now i'm feeding right into it. Then my pt was in extreme pain so I gave her some dilaudid and she was on morphine every 3 hours and I had given a dose 2 hours before and the doctors didn't seem to want to go anywhere with this pt with an inoperable tumor. Anyway then her resp go to 6/min had to give narcan. Started the abx on the other lady. A new admission came did that. Then 4 patients, doctors wrote all new orders for medications. Then some of my meds weren't up from pharmacy. In the midst of all this I didn't want to give my overdosed pt lasix IV 80mg b/c I didn't want her bp to drop. Now I already got the mds to change this pt to IV meds and hold po meds till something else is done. She was on lasix and another bp med. Her pressure would go to 160/100 only when she was in pain and it was excruciating. So during her resp depression she was 120/80. Which is fine but I still didn't feel comfortable giving the lasix. I waited to the end of my shift b/c I had vitals taken again to make sure the pt was ok. She was. But I got backed up giving rest of meds. And I was almost not going to give it and next shift goes: you have an overdo are you doing it, before I can even tell what happened. So I tell the oncomming shift the dilema and she says well her bp's not the issue. Then she's like did you call the md. I already talked with the md it was my own judgement which I told her. My thing was the pt's this pettite little thing got all these narcs I don't want to keel her over. I ended up giving it ONLY b/c she is not on any po bp meds and stayed 120/80. Then I get: you didn't update the sheet, (our work report sheets, has pt name, test and you update it each shift, NOT a chart document, jus paper for us nurses only). I said well the name is there and she tells me let me ask this did you update your sheets at all this shift? NO! See this stuff just drives me nuts. I'm part of the problem b/c I'm so sensitive. Maybe that nurse JUST wanted to know so she had an idea about the report sheet. I understand having things ready for all the shifts but something has to give. It gets so stressful and it's just upsetting when people jump on you especially over stupid stuff. Then it's almost as if people get burned with issues from other nurses so they jump on you to make sure they don't get burn. It's you can't win and I don't know how to fix it!

OOh i'm venting. Probably sounding catty too. Is that why? B/c it's so stressful mixed with all these different personalities? It seems lots of superior complexes too. Or they are not confident and put others down people too. Dismays me. You need tough skin. Guess goes with life.

[mcleanl]

Do a article search on "horizontal violence."

I am so glad you brought this up. I completed a paper on this very topic a few years ago and I think the subject deserves a lot more attention. This is what I took away from the idea.... the less autonomous a position is, the more back-stabbing and fighting there will be. It really has very little to do with gender and more to do with the type of position you hold. Very interesting stuff!

[Marie_LPN, RN, LPN, RN]

Female nurses are catty because they are women, and frankly, many women are catty.

Considering on thread like this, that the above quoted line is quite often used, i'd like to point out that it's not an answer to a question, it's just an excuse.

Nurse are catty because most are female, and females are catty, and that's that? I don't think so.

Once the gender-based stereotypes are halted, then MAYBE progress toward a solution can move forward. Till then, this argument will continue to spin in a circle.