WHY are nurses so catty??

fergus51 · Jan 10, 2006

I guess I will go on personal experience. I have seen a great many catty females (not just nurses but it does seem to be worse in a hospital setting) but I don't recall many catty males and no catty male nurses.
Might be interesting to do this as a poll and see what the results are. Let's face it, much of this is subjective and difficult to measure. But it's not difficult to measure when some poor girl is the target of the behaviors. It's nothing less than cruel.
You and I (I think) have something in common. We aren't afraid to speak up and talk to a coworker (unless she is stinky LOL different thread). We don't NEED to run to the floor mommy. We have the social skills to talk it out and express a concern over a specific issue with the coworker. I don't think your average new grad is like that. You get some poor 20 y/o who is the target of these behaviors and ask her. Were they women or men?

Of course they will be women, because nursing is still something like 95% women. It's like saying 100% of the people I've seen pregnant are women. Well, yeah, but that doesn't mean all women are getting pregnant or even that a majority of them are. That gives a pretty scewed result. If you ask them who their role models are, chances are they will also be women.

I started nursing in my early 20s, went almost straight into it from high school and I worked it out. Were some nurses mean to me? Yeah, I think some were. I either let it go or dealt with it. You have to make a choice and live with it because you can't control other people. There are some mean people in every job and learning to deal with that is just part of growing up. I also found some great nurses to work with, people who were caring, supportive, helpful, intelligent, professional and fun. Those are my role models and they're mostly women too. Of the men I've worked with, about half of them were great and half weren't. That's just my personal experience, but I doubt that means 50% of male nurses suck.

I've seen a lot of nurses, especially new nurses, complain about catty behavior or nurses "eating their young". IMO and I know it isn't going to be popular, some seem to enjoy playing the victim. I don't care if you're 20 or 50, you need to learn to be assertive with coworkers or how on earth will you be able to stand up to patients/families/doctors, etc? I also see the bully excuse being used as an excuse sometimes ("She wrote me up because she doesn't like me" instead of "She wrote me up because I made a major error"). Sometimes I even find the complaints silly. I work with a girl who I like, we hang out outside of work. But, she has complained to me that one woman doesn't say hi to her when she walks into the break room. Of course my friend never considered saying hi first. She also complains if people don't offer to help her. Did she consider that she could ask for help when she needs it? Nope. I might not walk around and offer help to people because I am not a mind reader, but I will always help out when asked. She would probably think I was catty though if we weren't friends.

Bipley · Jan 10, 2006

Of course they will be women, because nursing is still something like 95% women.

But my point is that the other 5% (men) don't typically join the behaviors referred to earlier.

But, she has complained to me that one woman doesn't say hi to her when she walks into the break room. Of course my friend never considered saying hi first. She also complains if people don't offer to help her. Did she consider that she could ask for help when she needs it? Nope. I might not walk around and offer help to people because I am not a mind reader, but I will always help out when asked. She would probably think I was catty though if we weren't friends.

I understand what you mean, but that's not the kind of behaviors I am referring to. I am referring to the stuff discussed in the thread, when it REALLY happens. Men are not typically the ones joining in.

At a LTC facilility we had a housekeeper that was ... hmmm, hard to explain this gal. She was not overly bright and it was obvious in every bloody way. She was also exceedingly hillbilly-ish. She did her job, she showed up every bloody day, she treated people well, but she was quite unusual. Just because she was a little different didn't give folks a right to treat her as they did. They treated her like an idiot and overall they were just mean to her. It finally took the males to approach me and tell me what was going on. Two of them had their fill, they weren't going to let this continue.

Apparently each time the housekeeper left the area they would start humming the theme song to the "Beverly Hillbillies," just lots of really horrible behaviors. I had no idea.

I brought the housekeeper in my office and asked her what was going on. She broke down in tears and said she just didn't know what to do. She tried to be nice, she tried everything but people were so mean to her.

I was beyond angry for a lot of reasons. I was angry that those that worked in that area never told me about these issues, I was angry that they happened to begin with, and I was angry that it took a couple of the guys from a different area to work over there for a few shifts before this was brought to my attention. One of them (male) told me that he attempted to drop some hints but it was clear this behavior wasn't going to end.

I darn sure ended it.

Yes, I realize this is just one example. But in my 20+ years in this profession when a *real* situation happens, it's always women behind the behaviors. Am I saying ALL women are like that? Certainly not, and I am also not claiming that no men behave this way. When these behaviors occur, they are women doing it.

fergus51 · Jan 10, 2006

But my point is that the other 5% (men) don't typically join the behaviors referred to earlier.
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50% of the men I've worked with have either been catty, incompetent, uncaring or rude which is probably a higher percentage of the women I've worked with. That doesn't mean men are prone to that behavior, it means I've worked with some bad nurses who happened to be men. I suspect some of it was due to them not wanting to be working in our unit to begin with.

I just get so sick of hearing "nurses are catty because they're women and women are catty". BULL! I'm a woman. I'm not catty. You're a woman. You're not catty. Look at the number of women complaining about cattyness. They wouldn't be complaining if they were participating in it would they? So they aren't catty. Bad behavior is not about gender. That's such a copout. Those nurses you described were catty. That doesn't mean it's a gender thing. The flip side of that argument would be to point out that almost all of my role models in nursing are women (and one man I can think of). They aren't prone to competence, intelligence and niceness because they're women though. That's just their personality.

My brother works as a cop (as my dad did for over 30 years). Trust me, they are sometimes catty and often mean to eachother despite being men. His stories shocked me more than anything I've heard in nursing. Of course, when he tells about work it's "stories" right? I'm sure if he was a girl we'd say it was "gossip":chuckle

greystoke · Jan 10, 2006

I remember being in nursing school and one of my instructor's telling the class that "nurses eat their young...or their own..." or something like that. She said that nurses were some of the most competitive people you will ever meet. I really thought she was exaggerating...until I graduated and went to work in the field....or should I say...in the trenches...YES nurses eat their young. They are some of the most cold-hearted, back-stabbingest people I have ever met...I am sorry to say. Yes, you have b*****s everywhere, but you have an EXCESS in the nursing field! They will find and pick apart some of the most petty ridiculous things imaginable. SnowymtRN...I feel for your Mom...that other nurse was not worried about her in the least, if she had been, she'd have gone to your mom FIRST...as is often the case, unfortunately, more often than not, she was trying to stir up some trouble...it's a constant fight to watch your back...and I actually work with some of the more decent of the breed!!! UGHHHHHHHH.................and they wonder why there is a nursing sh
ortage?????!!!!!!! :angryfire :angryfire

Finally, someone who tells it like it is....And I agree with you 100%. For some reason there are people out there that think it makes them look good to "run to the boss", and spill their guts before they get the total picture... I have always been the type to bring the problem to the problem...More often than not, finding out there was no problem in the first place...I have known many of these 'runners' over the years and sooner or later, what goes around comes around...

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Jan 10, 2006

I honestly don't recall ever working with a male that behaved as what we are talking about. Oh, I'm sure they are out there, I just never worked with one.

Then you've been lucky.

I can deal with men and women whining and gossiping....I just ignore it and gone on with my duties. It is relatively easy to avoid witchiness at work...you just don't indulge and dies out.

On the other hand, the only two times that I have dealt with physically threatening incidents...it has been perpetrated by male nurses. One incident was rather benign. The other involved a male nurse that came in late and was to float to another unit (it was clearly his turn and he had been evading the duty for quite a while). He committed an act that injured other staff, quit on the spot, stormed out and called his wife, threatening to hurt himself and/or staff. He had a gun in his car. The unit went into lockdown.

Quite frankly, gossip I can survive....being physically injured and having my life threatened is more dire than a few errant words.

What I have found is the people that frequently complain of witchiness and gossip are often some of the worst perpetrators. It isn't until they are adversely affected, that they complain about it.

Interestly, when you hear about "nice person goes nuts and mows down their coworkers with a gun"...it is usually a male. Why is that?

( laying odds that someone will find a way to blame women for that, also)

Bipley · Jan 10, 2006

50% of the men I've worked with have either been catty, incompetent, uncaring or rude which is probably a higher percentage of the women I've worked with. That doesn't mean men are prone to that behavior, it means I've worked with some bad nurses who happened to be men. I suspect some of it was due to them not wanting to be working in our unit to begin with.

We seem to have different experiences. I still say I enjoy working with men more, it's just more fun.

Of course, when he tells about work it's "stories" right? I'm sure if he was a girl we'd say it was "gossip":chuckle

Now HERE we agree 100%!

I have to admit that I don't turn a deaf ear to gossip, but I can say that I don't repeat it. I'm the one people come to if they have a problem or just want to tell someone something they don't want the whole world to know but they want to tell someone. I'm not talking gossip, I am referring to their own personal issues. So I pretty much know something very personal about most everyone. When I hear gossip I have to laugh because I know the truth. It's a little bit amusing to hear how the story grows.

Bipley · Jan 11, 2006

Then you've been lucky.
I can deal with men and women whining and gossiping....I just ignore it and gone on with my duties. It is relatively easy to avoid witchiness at work...you just don't indulge and dies out.
On the other hand, the only two times that I have dealt with physically threatening incidents...it has been perpetrated by male nurses. One incident was rather benign. The other involved a male nurse that came in late and was to float to another unit (it was clearly his turn and he had been evading the duty for quite a while). He committed an act that injured other staff, quit on the spot, stormed out and called his wife, threatening to hurt himself and/or staff. He had a gun in his car. The unit went into lockdown.
Quite frankly, gossip I can survive....being physically injured and having my life threatened is more dire than a few errant words.
What I have found is the people that frequently complain of witchiness and gossip are often some of the worst perpetrators. It isn't until they are adversely affected, that they complain about it.
Interestly, when you hear about "nice person goes nuts and mows down their coworkers with a gun"...it is usually a male. Why is that?
( laying odds that someone will find a way to blame women for that, also)

Honestly, I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Violent behavior is not catty.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Jan 11, 2006

Honestly, I think you are comparing apples to oranges. Violent behavior is not catty.

Actually, I disagree.

Many of those posting on this topic, on other threads, refer to it as "horizontal violence". Thus, graduating to physical violence is not such a far stretch.

If we are to research the issue as "horizontal violence"in the workplace, we have to accept that there is a distinct connection to physical violence. This is what is done in court, when dealing with escalating violence in cases (domestic/homicide/assault and battery).

fergus51 · Jan 11, 2006

We seem to have different experiences. I still say I enjoy working with men more, it's just more fun.
Now HERE we agree 100%!
I have to admit that I don't turn a deaf ear to gossip, but I can say that I don't repeat it. I'm the one people come to if they have a problem or just want to tell someone something they don't want the whole world to know but they want to tell someone. I'm not talking gossip, I am referring to their own personal issues. So I pretty much know something very personal about most everyone. When I hear gossip I have to laugh because I know the truth. It's a little bit amusing to hear how the story grows.

I have close friends at work who I would trust with info I wanted to keep quiet and I do the same for them. I have found it remarkably easy to stay out of the gossip. I just avoid the breakroom. That's where 99% of it happens since most of us are too busy working to do it any other place. I've been working at the same place for about a year and a half and only just recently made the gossip rounds with a rumour I might be pregnant.:chuckle

I have also been lucky enough to make some great friends among my nursing colleagues. There are some great women in nursing and I try to focus on them rather than those I dislike.

chadash · Jan 11, 2006

To find out a girl's faults, praise her to her girlfriends. ~Benjamin Franklin

Who brings a tale takes two away. ~Irish Proverb

abusedtravelnurse · Jan 22, 2006

I am dealing with a surprising issue. I found my cna using cell phones on personal calls with patient in the rooms. Refusing to change patients who had bms, not giving patients water. When I wrote them up as instructed by my supv. I was informed by my director that I needed to go slower and take it easy so I decided to back off. If patients needed some thing I just found a way to take care of it. I dont work often. The other weekend I worked with a cna who was new to me. I noticed she did not turn the patienst every 2 hrs so I just did it myself then when I was sleeping at home after the grave yard shift. I got a call that she had not emptied the trash, the linen hamper nor stocked shelves so the next night I mentioned it must have been an over site and offered her help but she did not accept. She mentioned she was going to have popcorn and I told her it was against the facilicty policy to pop corn but she did it any way. The housekeeper came and took me to task . I explained I did not do it and she said "who Did?'. I said I guessed she would have to ask the only other person working as I was not going to carry tales.Then i get called in by director to find out someone complained I slepy on both shifts. I explained that was not true and impossible as we have to visually check every patient every 15 min.

I think about quitting as I really dont need this but I decided to hang in there and try to kill the cna with kindness as I live the Patients.

To some it up. It seems the management currently believes cna over rns.

nursemike, ASN, RN · Jan 25, 2006

Interestly, when you hear about "nice person goes nuts and mows down their coworkers with a gun"...it is usually a male. Why is that?
( laying odds that someone will find a way to blame women for that, also)

It seems to me that with the increasining feminization of our society, men are deprived of such healthy outlets for their frustrations as swearing at each other and punching each other in the nose. Without these and similarly benign means to settle differences, anger and resentment build to the point that the resort to firearms is necessary and inevitable. Some would argue that the suppression of mildly violent impulses is a hallmark of a civilized society.

Exactly! Just look at the history of the American west, where men were all happy and well-adjusted and only shot those who deserved it, until Grace Kelly came along and made Gary Cooper get all civilized.