Why are so many nurses against unions?

[Icunicenurse]

I really don't understand. I am a newish nurse that landed my "dream job" in the icu. My hospital is the biggest and best in the area and we are currently on a journey to magnet. I feel like I was lied to about how this would help nurses and we would be supported and taken care of.

In my icu we have a very high acuity. We are constantly short staffed and tripled. 1:1 for ccrt pts is advertised but never actually happens!

I have seen a patient self extubate during the holy interdisciplinary rounds due to that nurse being tripled and spread out across the unit. None of the bosses said any thing and just went on to round on the next patient.

The majority of our assistants will not help unless asked and it's like pulling teeth just to get them to help with a blood sugar check. Often they are sitting on their cellphones or just catching up on gossip. But since they have worked there a long time it is widely accepted by the staff.

We have are losing staff nurses left and right.

I have been talked down to by our surgeons and blatantly disrespected on more than one occasion for trying to help a patient but not enough to be considered abusive so that I could report it. Once, I calmly asked a doc to update the close family members of a dying patient at their request. Since a distant family had been updated, the doctor was visibly offended and proceeded to call my charge nurse and say "I got in her face" which was completely false. Luckily the charge was within ear shot and heard everything. This was swept under the rug.

During my new nurse orientation the nursing instructor preached against unions especially since we were going magnet and would have so many benefits.

I feel like a strong nurse union could solve many of our problems and help our patient care. But the majority of nurses I have talked to are completely against it. I can't understand this for the life of me.

Sadly, my dream job has turned to hell. I love my sick patients and family but sick of being overworked, tripled, never even getting a lunch break, all while being talked down to and humiliated by the Dr.s that see me as a stupid new nurse.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

On 8/21/2020 at 2:06 AM, VivaLasViejas said:

Nailed it. ??

I have to pay my taxes even though I don't agree with much of anything going on now in Washington, but I realize that I have to pay taxes for my own benefit - pave the roads, etc.  

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

I find that I often disagree with the politics of the nursing union that I used to pay dues to (to an extreme extent). However, because companies/hospitals often act in such an evil malicious manner unions are the only barrier to complete exploitation of nurses and other workers. They are barely better than the coal mining companies who would allow workers to "mine" under conditions they know to be unsafe and when the inevitable happens (such as medical waste errors) rather than burying bodies in the ground they simply bury careers, simply because it is cheaper and more profitable than to do the right thing. They will also do this with doctors (but will do it with nurses first) and will do it in an even more cavalier manner when it comes to workers such as CNA and other staff.  If unions were run by the Mafia itself (as many indeed used to be at least to some extent) I would still support them because so many hospitals are so EVIL at the corporate level that even the Devil himself would be proud of their business practices.

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

I worked on a case where an exemplary nurse was fired and slandered by the hospital to the point where they called other hospitals in the area to repeat the slander. The union was invaluable in giving me the information I needed to support the nurse's lawsuit against the hospital. Got a big judgment. Have worked several other cases like this. A good union is there for YOU. And remember, the union IS you. Get involved.

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

3 hours ago, Hannahbanana said:

I worked on a case where an exemplary nurse was fired and slandered by the hospital to the point where they called other hospitals in the area to repeat the slander. The union was invaluable in giving me the information I needed to support the nurse's lawsuit against the hospital. Got a big judgment. Have worked several other cases like this. A good union is there for YOU. And remember, the union IS you. Get involved.

My wife sometimes "worries" that we could face a lawsuit from patients. While, I agree that as a provider this is always a concern I remind her that when we worked as RN;s we also had a continual "sword of Damocles" hanging over us.  I can still remember one day when I was "hanging out by the pool" on an off day and my manager called me to advise of a "narcotics waste issue".  I had wasted  with the charge nurse and the issue was cleared, but as the experience of others here proves "there but for the grace of God" go I (I did suggest and they did implement cameras at all of the Pixus machine rooms which at least provides some small level of protection for future issues like the one I experienced).  My point is that blaming nurses (and even MD's) for "structural" issues that are really hospital issues is more the norm rather than the exception. Every nurse (and even MD) and certainly rad tech, lab worker, RT, and others should realize that often we are nothing but fodder to be burned upon the alter of profit. Our reputation, hopes, and dreams often mean little or nothing to these multi billion dollar institutions and the administrative lackeys who have sold their souls either to be out of bedside or to make a bit more money.  Unions despite their flaws are often the only avenue for a bit of "due process" that the average worker has access to.  

[travelingrn2001, ASN, BSN]

I think that one of the common reasons nurses are against unions is that hospitals do a very good job painting a picture of how ineffective and expensive a union for nurses has been.

Generally, unions do not have any ability to effect working conditions, that is usually done by state law, and government oversight and other agencies like TJC.

Unions do have the ability to give the employees a voice when it comes to benefits and pay. When was the last time you actually were aware of what your benefits are (IE, is hospice care paid for, likely yes but not universal) much less had any input in deciding what benefits are available to you?

I have not been a strong advocate for unions in the past. I feel that the threat of a union can be much better.

The current pandemic is making me reconsider this as my life and the life family has become more at risk.  I am beginning to feel that a union will be helpful to create a contract to protect my family from the loss of my income as the workplace becomes increasingly dangerous and businesses are fighting to limit liability for my future damage to my family if I am disabled or unable to earn a living because of my work environment.

[Kitiger, RN]

While I'm not necessarily against unions, I am against strikes. I've worked a non-union hospital while the other hospital (unionized) went on strike for weeks and weeks. 

The patients suffered. Some - who could afford it - went to Canada for surgery. Some languished in my hospital, needing the specialized surgery that was available only in the other hospital. And we had patients crawling out of the woodwork, in exam rooms, on the sunporch, anywhere we had call lights. ER had them lined up in the halls.

Nurses who go on strike do so for their future patients. I feel too much compassion for our present patients to support a strike.

[Wuzzie]

I belong to a union with a “no strike” clause and frankly, without the union I’m quite sure I would not be anywhere near as happy as I am. They fight for us in every single way not just benefits and pay. But if you think about it even if it was only that there would still be an impact on patient care because of the happy nurses who stick around for longer than a minute. 

[Kitiger, RN]

9 hours ago, Wuzzie said:

I belong to a union with a “no strike” clause and frankly, without the union I’m quite sure I would not be anywhere near as happy as I am. They fight for us in every single way not just benefits and pay. But if you think about it even if it was only that there would still be an impact on patient care because of the happy nurses who stick around for longer than a minute. 

I like the "no strike" clause. 

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

They count on nurses to say that. And you can count on the fact that the hospital likes it too, because the only thing that keeps them at the bargaining table is money. They know WELL in advance when the strike will occur and can make plans to coordinate with EMS and other hospitals in the area, decrease admissions, stop scheduling elective surgeries (this pisses off the docs, so more pressure on them), transfer the sickest people, and hire (amazingly expensive) travel staff. In many cases what they paid the travel companies would have paid for all the benefits the union seeks in the first place. So why do they do that? Three guesses.

I worked ICU in a 770-bed hospital when we first unionized. We gave them a month's notice, and on the day the strike began they were down to 70 patients. Management nurses cared for them (they were fully on our side, but not covered, so that's how they did it). One enduring memory was when a night nurse in the ICU was going off shift at 7:00 am and they'd deputized some house staff to do some patient care. When she passed the last room, she saw two of them in a room fully covered with gowns and gloves (these were not isolation patients, just routine clean open heart), and heard one say, "I'll hold him over and you wash him." The other doc said, "No, I'LL hold him over and YOU wash him." She laughed all the way down to her car. We won in 9 days and were back to full capacity in less than a week.

[myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN]

Having a "no strike" clause if like a gun owner having a "no shoot" clause to defend his family. It it the "ultimate" weapon to discourage abuse. Without at least the credible threat of strikes organizations like HCA will laugh at your union or at best play lip service.  We are talking about organizations that will go as far as to "fake" medical conditions in order to cause patients to undergo unnecessary and potentially fatal (but expensive treatments) as outlined by the NYT https://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/07/business/hospital-chain-internal-reports-found-dubious-cardiac-work.html and https://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20150227/NEWS/150229905/whistle-blower-alleges-hca-billed-medicare-for-unnecessary-heart-procedures.  Do you think they are going to respect your union contract without the credible threat of a strike? These people are ruthless and will happily destroy careers, lives, and see patients die all the while counting their end of year bonuses.

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

What myoglobin said. Been there, done that. Nurses almost overwhelmingly strike not for benefits and salary but for better patient care. That means having enough staff hired to deliver it, and enough pay, benefits, and decent conditions to keep them on staff. But eyes on the prize: It's better care that is always our driver.

[Wuzzie]

My experience with our union has been entirely different than some of yours.