Why are so many nurses against unions?

[Icunicenurse]

I really don't understand. I am a newish nurse that landed my "dream job" in the icu. My hospital is the biggest and best in the area and we are currently on a journey to magnet. I feel like I was lied to about how this would help nurses and we would be supported and taken care of.

In my icu we have a very high acuity. We are constantly short staffed and tripled. 1:1 for ccrt pts is advertised but never actually happens!

I have seen a patient self extubate during the holy interdisciplinary rounds due to that nurse being tripled and spread out across the unit. None of the bosses said any thing and just went on to round on the next patient.

The majority of our assistants will not help unless asked and it's like pulling teeth just to get them to help with a blood sugar check. Often they are sitting on their cellphones or just catching up on gossip. But since they have worked there a long time it is widely accepted by the staff.

We have are losing staff nurses left and right.

I have been talked down to by our surgeons and blatantly disrespected on more than one occasion for trying to help a patient but not enough to be considered abusive so that I could report it. Once, I calmly asked a doc to update the close family members of a dying patient at their request. Since a distant family had been updated, the doctor was visibly offended and proceeded to call my charge nurse and say "I got in her face" which was completely false. Luckily the charge was within ear shot and heard everything. This was swept under the rug.

During my new nurse orientation the nursing instructor preached against unions especially since we were going magnet and would have so many benefits.

I feel like a strong nurse union could solve many of our problems and help our patient care. But the majority of nurses I have talked to are completely against it. I can't understand this for the life of me.

Sadly, my dream job has turned to hell. I love my sick patients and family but sick of being overworked, tripled, never even getting a lunch break, all while being talked down to and humiliated by the Dr.s that see me as a stupid new nurse.

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

7 minutes ago, The Blatant Nurse Shannon said:

Couldn't say it any better. I've worked for both union and non-union hospitals. Admins LOVE to use scare tactics on nurses, but I've only seen it done in union hospitals (not to say that it doesn't happen in non-union hospitals). I've seen the best teams I've ever had the pleasure of working within non-union hospitals, but the pay and everything else was less than competing hospitals in the area. I've worked for a hospital that broke down where the hospital spends money and what's leftover, and you can definitely see the profit. I feel halfsies on this since it's not a good feeling to see a hospital in the red either. 

But I'd prefer hospitals going into the red for the nursing staff rather than unproven technology (lots of spending on that!) or pianos in the lobbies.

[lassieSR, ASN]

California nurse patient ratios are regulated by state law. No other states, nor federal govt, have ratio laws yet. Acuity system is also a state mandate and hospitals must follow or answer to CA Dept of Public Health if complaints filed. Federal and state laws determine break pay, penalty pay for missed breaks, and overtime pay as well. CA has higher levels of protection for the worker. States with unions have higher pay and benefits due to unions, even for jobs that are non-union in order to compete and retain staff. The downside is the animosity that results from the conflict with managers against unions, and vice versa. Management often tries to intimidate nurses who speak up for union contract rules and the regulations. 

 

 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

15 hours ago, lassieSR said:

California nurse patient ratios are regulated by state law. No other states, nor federal govt, have ratio laws yet. Acuity system is also a state mandate and hospitals must follow or answer to CA Dept of Public Health if complaints filed. Federal and state laws determine break pay, penalty pay for missed breaks, and overtime pay as well. CA has higher levels of protection for the worker. States with unions have higher pay and benefits due to unions, even for jobs that are non-union in order to compete and retain staff. The downside is the animosity that results from the conflict with managers against unions, and vice versa. Management often tries to intimidate nurses who speak up for union contract rules and the regulations. 

 

 

If animosity is the price we have to pay for for safe working conditions, so be it.  Too many administrators look at us as widgets to be manipulated.  Bring back the Director of Nursing position to sit at the big corporate table instead of incorporating that job into another corporate lackey.

[chevyv, BSN, RN]

I quit my union after about 3-4yrs. I asked where my union dues actually went and nobody could give me an answer. I requested a union hand book several times and was always told they were in the process of revising it. They did very little to help the employee who requested their union rep. Then I found out that our union donates to political candidates and I was done.  I think that's where much of the dues go and I normally vote the opposite.

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

The question to ask is not, "Why are so many nurses against unions?" It's, "Why aren't all nurses FOR unions?" Where we are, it's not remotely "so many" who are leery of union representation. The ones who have it are thrilled. I have seen unions represent nurses who were unfairly terminated more than once, and the nurses ALWAYS won. So it's not the nurses who have anything to fear by union representation, it's management who think they can do anything and get away with it because an individual nurse has little power or money for legal representation. Solidarity forever!

[C E J, LPN]

We need a real Union,  a united front part of the AFL-CIO. We need to be able to take a stand for one another because the old way of doing things has not worked. Becoming, being, and remaining a Licensed Nurse is more difficult each day and it is not being recognized my most states, corporations, and Health Care entities.

https://www.change.org/HealthcareWorkersUnite

People are afraid to sign this for fear of retribution or loss of their job.  This goes much deeper than one job, no matter how long you have worked there. If we want change we have to take the steps to do it ourselves...

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

1 hour ago, C E J said:

We need a real Union,  a united front part of the AFL-CIO. We need to be able to take a stand for one another because the old way of doing things has not worked. Becoming, being, and remaining a Licensed Nurse is more difficult each day and it is not being recognized my most states, corporations, and Health Care entities.

https://www.change.org/HealthcareWorkersUnite

People are afraid to sign this for fear of retribution or loss of their job.  This goes much deeper than one job, no matter how long you have worked there. If we want change we have to take the steps to do it ourselves...

Why does it have to be AFL-CIO?  Do they have nursing's particular interests in mind?

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

2 hours ago, subee said:

Why does it have to be AFL-CIO?  Do they have nursing's particular interests in mind?

Workers’ rights are pretty universal organizing principles in the US. The erstwhile manager of the Red Sox, Joe Morgan, famously said he’d take a Shi’ite pitcher in a turban if he’d give him 15 wins by August first, LOL. I would take the reincarnation of Jimmy Hoffa if his union could give us better working conditions (which we, not he, would delineate) and pay.

All politics is local (to quote another local icon, Tip O’Neill). The AFL-CIO, UAW, SEIU, or any union looks at the needs of the individual bargaining unit. We wouldn’t be getting negotiations based on steel workers’ or garment workers’ standards, but nursing’s. 

[subee, MSN, CRNA]

43 minutes ago, Hannahbanana said:

Workers’ rights are pretty universal organizing principles in the US. The erstwhile manager of the Red Sox, Joe Morgan, famously said he’d take a Shi’ite pitcher in a turban if he’d give him 15 wins by August first, LOL. I would take the reincarnation of Jimmy Hoffa if his union could give us better working conditions (which we, not he, would delineate) and pay.

All politics is local (to quote another local icon, Tip O’Neill). The AFL-CIO, UAW, SEIU, or any union looks at the needs of the individual bargaining unit. We wouldn’t be getting negotiations based on steel workers’ or garment workers’ standards, but nursing’s. 

It's just that I would prefer a nursing union representing nurses.  Nurses should have the power in their own right and not have to depend on outside non-professionals to get what they need.

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

2 minutes ago, subee said:

It's just that I would prefer a nursing union representing nurses.  Nurses should have the power in their own right and not have to depend on outside non-professionals to get what they need.

I agree, but perhaps after all the years we’ve been saying that it might be good to get some working tutorials from people who have been more successful. 

[travelingrn2001, ASN, BSN]

I was recently speaking with a friend/RN who works as the COO of one of the few remaining independent hospitals in the area. He was excited that California was raising the idea of price gouging for nurses wages during the pandemic. 
He explained that his labor costs were unsustainable at the current levels required to maintain a staffed hospital. 
THen he continued to explain how it was impossible to stay competitive with the local hospital chains because of the larger systems strength to command higher reimbursement from private insurance, lower supply costs etc. 

I thought it was interesting how he explained the exact situation nurses find themselves in. Without a collection of voices, individuals can be pressured into suboptimal deals.

Instead of fighting against the well funded corporations that make competition difficult at best and bankrupting at worst, the decision is to pressure lone nurses into accepting their past wage situation again. 
 

I think this says so much about why nurses and workers need to band together. Unions can give the the workers the voice to be heard by administrators and legislators. 

[MissPiggy8]

On 1/21/2016 at 11:40 AM, Icunicenurse said:

I will follow. I can see nothing but benefits for nurses who are part of unions. I know there have to be other nurses at my hospital interested in unionizing but union is a dirty word in my area and I am sure people are afraid of facing backlash. Since we have no protection I wouldn't be surprised to see nurses fired for any reason possible if we even talked about it. Depressing.

I am what I like to call a "recovering" nurse; quit in 2007.  I worked in a facility and one day during a staff meeting one of the "gods on high" made the statement "If we even HEAR the word union, the person that said it will be fired!".  Need I say more?  I'm sure you can guess that this is texas (lower case intentional).